Daniel Black Open Thread

There seem to be a lot of people who still want to talk about what Daniel ought to be doing and what enchantments he should be working on, so I figured I’d give you a better place to do it that the comments of an unrelated post. I may even answer a few questions, as long as they don’t give away anything I have planned for future books.

Of course, the answer to most questions of the form ‘why hasn’t Daniel done X’ is ‘he hasn’t had time’. At the end of Extermination it’s only been about three months since he was summoned, and he’s been insanely busy for that entire time. So his enchantment work has focused almost entirely on things he could do quickly, without having to spend much time figuring things out.

The other point I want to mention, though, is that Daniel isn’t intended to be some perfectly hyper-competent superman. He’s just a guy who had enough brains, imagination and determination to get the job done, at least so far. But there were several places where I intentionally had him do things that turned out to be a mistake because it fit his attitude at the time, or because he had no way of knowing better. That’s going to continue to happen in the future, although he is learning.

My inspiration for Daniel actually comes from some of the more capable players I’ve met in tabletop RPG games over the years. You know that guy who can debate everything from Napoleonic military tactics to advanced space launch technologies? The one who keeps bypassing the GM’s carefully constructed plot complications by doing something clever but sensible instead of just charging after the obvious plot hooks? The one who always seems to be overpowered, because he reads all the rulebooks and carefully min-maxes his  characters? That’s Daniel.

The trouble is, it’s a lot easier to talk about things than to actually do them. Real life doesn’t come with a rulebook, and just because you watched a video about something once doesn’t mean you can do it. So even with the huge cheat of mana sorcery, there’s going to be a lot of trial and error in Daniel’s future.

He’s still frustrated that he can’t remember how a Geiger counter is supposed to work…

6,431 thoughts on “Daniel Black Open Thread

  1. There’s something nagging at me about INTREPID’s force bubble vacuum lift cells.

    I suspect the enchantment which inflates them cannot REINFLATE a “broken” bubble while it is deflating, because of the assumptions Daniel made when he first created the spell.

    That suspicion is driven by Daniel’s descriptions of how many minutes it would take, and what he plans to do in that sort of emergency.

    There’s no reason for waiting so long, or for INTREPID losing much altitude. He’s working with vacuum, not helium. At any moment he suspects he has a problem with a force bubble full of vacuum he should immediately begin creating a new force bubble inside the failing one. He could even design his enchantment to schedule this process every hour for each force bubble on the airship, to keep the vacuum hard and clean.

    In fact, if Daniel ever figures out or remembers Geiger counter technology, he can create a good, hard vacuum for the tube(s) by generating several force bubble full of vacuum, one right after the other and starting at the same center point, until very few atoms of anything remain inside the final cell.

    I suppose he could then cast a matter to mana spell on whatever atoms were left inside that final cell to make a nearly perfect vacuum.

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    1. Why would he bother? What would be the difference to just pumping more mana into the existing bubble? It is a force construct. It should actively expel air. It looks to me that the reformation of the bubble works because the way it works because it needs a smaller surface at first to form.

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      1. Given Daniel’s and INTREPID’s usual surplus of available mana, there’s no practical difference between “pumping more mana” into the bubble and recasting the bubble. That being the case, it’s more desirable to replace a failing bubble enchantment with a new, presumably stable force bubble.

        Why would Daniel be recasting the enchantment? How would a force bubble be damaged?
        – Some enemy has successfully made a dispel attack which has caused unrecoverable damage.
        – Some sort of physical attack has caused unrecoverable damage, overwhelmed the mana reserve, etc.

        No, atmosphere is not “evicted” from the force bubble.

        Only a tiny amount of atmosphere is ever actually inside the force bubble, when Daniel’s enchantment creates the first tiny bubble and expands it. That results in a large volume of air with a tiny number of gas atoms scattered through it. Probably a few bits of pollen, dust and pocket lint as well.

        As Elin points out, there may be some air seeping slowly INTO active force bubbles, depending on how good Daniel’s enchantment is. That discussion was part of what inspires me to suggest all Daniel needs to do is recast the force bubble vacuum lift cell enchantment immediately, INSIDE the failing bubble. There’s no conflict, unless the author rules otherwise.

        Maybe two enchantments overlapping in time and the same physical volume is a bad thing?

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      2. How much does a force bubble weigh? It should not weigh anything. So why doesn’t he just do an onion effect. Cast a whole bunch of force bubbles inside of each other and then if one fails just expand the other ones recasting a new one in the center dispelling the one on the outside that failed.

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      3. Yeah, that’s another possibility, DaShoota.

        Each “onion layer” would be activated and maintained by its own section of a large, composite enchantment or by its own separate enchantment, and therefore adds a little more complexity as well as a little more mana demand.

        I would say the “onion layer” idea is worth testing, but I suspect a sufficiently powerful dispel is going to whack all the currently instantiated force bubbles.

        I suppose it’s worth forcing the enemy to expend more energy if multiple “onion layers” are more difficult to dispel. Maybe a few of the innermost layers would actually survive a dispel and then make the transition to a full size lift cell quicker.

        Otherwise, it’s probably less cumbersome to immediately recast the lift cell enchantment and start creating a new force bubble as soon as your flight status divination spell notifies your airship’s flight safety enchantment that a new lift cell is needed.

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      4. “So why doesn’t he just do an onion effect. Cast a whole bunch of force bubbles inside of each other and then if one fails just expand the other ones recasting a new one in the center dispelling the one on the outside that failed.”

        That is a good question and it leaves me with two possible answers.

        1. Daniel did not think about it. Given that he worked even on an altimeter and an autopilot I consider that unlikely.

        2. He cannot form a large force bubble in a vacuum. Now this may seem odd, given that it needs to do no work and hence should be easier. But there is something strange about his thrown force bolts and saws and consequently about the force bubbles on the Intrepid.

        Daniel could, as he built the Intrepid, not do magic more than a short distance from himself and, presumably, an enchanted object. So how does a huge bubble work? One possible answer is that he actually casts a spell on the air. Obviously that would not work in a vacuum.

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      5. Oliver, I like your reason #1 best. Daniel had a lot on his mind and just did not think of multiple layers of force bubbles.

        As for potential inhibitions against multiple layers, I proposed Daniel might not want to or be able to cast two or more identical spells inside the same volume at the same coordinates.

        We don’t see that prohibition anywhere, and I don’t have much faith in it, but it is a possibility.

        As for maximum size of force bubble, remember the description of INTREPID’s lift cell hardware.

        There are “masts” rising up out of the hull to the centerpoints of the force bubbles.

        Daniel does not have to worry at all about maximum size of force bubble. He can adapt his enchantment so that it happens only at the centerpoint, or all along whatever length of mast he builds. All he has to worry about is how ridiculously clumsy is that set of four or five or whatever number of masts.

        What I would really like to see is at least a brief comment by Daniel about the amount of additional mana required to expand a large force bubble even larger.

        It seems to me there are some exponential factors when calculating/generating the surface area of a sphere….

        Yep, that would 4*pi*(radius squared)

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      6. I like the idea that he just didn’t think of it yet. We’ve actually seen him go through that multiple times. Then pretty much do a facepalm where he says it seemed like a simple solution now that I look back on it. We’ve seen him do similar things in the past books. So it seems like the more obvious and reasonable solution to why he didn’t do it. It just hasn’t crossed his mind yet he’s too busy to worry about it now.

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    2. His matter to Mana enchantment actually works by converting the energy of the atoms into manna. If he cast that spell on a vacuum it would never stop converting energy into Mana. It should in theory switch over to converting Quantum photons into manna. That would be the Casimir effect. Basically energy being created from nothing.

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      1. Ooooh…good one, DaShoota.

        I was actually intending that Daniel would cast his matter to mana spell on the few remaining atoms of nitrogen, oxygen, carbon, or others in that near vacuum he creates inside his expanding force bubble lift cells.

        The implications for quantum photons is interesting, though. I wonder if Daniel eventually uses something like that to power an interstellar spaceship?

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    3. Ha! As it happens I’ve been reading the series again and am in the middle of THRALL. Remember when Daniel created a magic factory that produces hexagonal pins of tungsten that are heavily enchanted with OVERLAPPING wards and other protections?

      I believe we can safely say that Daniel has no issue casting identical, powerful enchantments whose effects overlap multiple times in very nearly the same physical location.

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      1. Also in a vacuum? And I might note that those force plates were very close to their origin, as opposed to Intrepid’s force bubbles.

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      2. Oliver, did you catch the part where Daniel enchants the end of a mast with his force bubble?

        He is NEVER casting that force bubble into a vacuum, the way the story is written. There’s always a piece of metal stuck in the middle of what will become vacuum. The mast reaches all the way outside the vacuum AND the force bubble to attach the lift cell to the hull of INTREPID.

        That mast has to survive some very interesting stresses during flight operations.

        As for OTHER moments Daniel might have cast a spell into vacuum, look at his fight with the assassins inside the SunSpire at the end of THRALL. There’s an instance where he creates a vacuum around himself.

        “Countering fire with water would be too obvious against these guys, so instead I triggered another of the devices on my belt. A force bubble formed just outside my wards, and expanded to form a bubble of near-vacuum that quickly filled the chamber. The fire went out, revealing a giant glowing worm floating in the air. I dialed the power on my staff back down and fired off a burst at it. It died a lot more easily than the last monster, its body not nearly as well armored.”

        Nope.

        Again, he’s using an enchanted item. That might partially answer your question about spells and vacuum.

        If Daniel has a situation where he needs to cast a spell into an area that contains nothing but vacuum all he needs to do is summon a block of stone inside it and enchant the stone to create the spell effect. Or, summon a chunk of stone into his hand, enchant it with the spell effect he wants, then put the stone inside the vacuum.

        Has anybody noticed a situation where Daniel is unable to summon stone or other materials?

        His enchanted items seem to be able to summon bullets even when flying a mile above the ground.

        He needs physical contact with his enchanted items in order to control them.

        He can use force magic to pull his items to him, or pull him to his items.

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      3. Well, no. See, if uou are casting a spell creating a vacuum, you are not inside a vacuum. That is kind of the point. We have never seen Daniel use force magic inside a vacuum, only at the boundary of a vacuum bubble.

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      4. Oliver, I disagree with the technical details of your observation.

        Yes, DANIEL is “outside” the sphere of his vacuum bubble when he creates it.

        However, the spell that does the actual work is INSIDE the vacuum bubble, at the tip of the iron mast where the force bubble will be centered.

        “My first flight experiment involved conjuring a simple basket of very thin iron, with a long rod tipped with a force field spell projecting from the top. When I triggered the spell a spherical force field a few inches across appeared at the end of the rod, and began to grow. That left a soft vacuum inside the force field, but my spells could easily handle a measly 14 psi of pressure.” Brown, E. William. Extermination (Daniel Black Book 3)

        That is his first experimental flying machine. I expect the INTREPID has actual ENCHANTMENTS inscribed on the tips of its masts, and the whole airship has a central matter to mana power supply somewhere aboard, which makes that dwarf-ork attempt to steal it all piecemeal even more dangerous to Daniel.

        Dwarf-ork magi would have figured out some or all of INTREPID’s magical tricks, if any mage in Varmland can.

        Now, it would be very interesting to see if Daniel can secure a sphere of breathable atmosphere around himself and then surround that with another sphere full of vacuum around his breathable sanctuary. Interesting, possibly even life-saving as during his fight against Lightbringer assassins in the Spire, but not nearly as useful to havev as INTREPID or an aerospace craft.

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      5. “However, the spell that does the actual work is INSIDE the vacuum bubble, at the tip of the iron mast where the force bubble will be centered.”

        Well, no. I am afraid this requires some convoluted explanation. At the time the spell is activated, there is no vacuum. The vacuum is a result of the spell. The spell is always in contact with its “working medium”, namely air at the boundary of the bubble.
        Yes, the source of the force effect is in vacuum, but the effect never needs to propagate through vacuum. Daniel has made force constructs larger than his usual range many times and in effect thrown them. But in every case they originate very close to him (or an enchanted / bespelled object) and propagated through air. In fact, force blades quickly losing momentum very much indicates that throwing a force blade involves throwing the air it is operating on. A magical effect should have no mass and hence no momentum to lose in the first place.

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  2. Here’s a fun idea that probably won’t ever happen.

    When Daniel is totally frustrated and exhausted from defending everyone and everything he’s built at Black Island, and it looks like there’s just no dodging the next Lightbringer assassin, or the next one, or the one after that…I know how he can run away someplace safe without breaking all his promises to protect Cerise, the groves, clan Nethwillin, etc.

    He promised Alanna to give her a tour of the entire Solar System, right? But he’ll want a substantial spacecraft to provide all the food, air, hot showers, hot tub, hot women, kitchen, armory, gardens, workshops, defenses, weapons staff, crew and more.

    He can have both. Just build one more hugely massive expansion to Black Island that fully encapsulates everything he has already constructed and launch the entire complex to Mars.

    If he’s feeling really obnoxious, he can leave an unoccupied duplicate shell behind with a ginormous boobytrap bomb inside it that vaporizes everything as soon as the first booby touches any part of it.

    If anyone suspects he’s not really dead THIS time, are they going to look as far away as Mars?

    By the time they figure out how to get there, will he still be on Mars?

    Alpha Centauri beckons and Alanna has an insatiable appetite for exploration.

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      1. How would anyone know Daniel took Black Island to Mars?

        Sure, his launch might be spectacular…or might not. Since he uses mana and elemental force there’s no need for him to be splashy. The island might simply vanish overnight, leaving a booby-trapped empty shell behind to confuse people for a while.

        Somebody might guess he took off into space rather than transitioning to his own pocket universe. Maybe a divination spell would give up more details? If some deity looks for him hard enough, will they find him on Mars? Can he and Alanna and a few other high-powered magic slingers shield the whole island from discovery?

        I suppose artifacts like the Dark Portal would make attacking a hideout on Mars a viable threat.

        Then there are those Gods Of Mars….

        Well, maybe Alanna will get her wish and the expedition will have to continue moving from one location to the next, one planet to the next, etc.

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      2. He hasn’t really demonstrated any mastery of teleportation magic yet, so he’d probably go with some kind of reaction drive. I suppose he might “invert the polarity” of some of the matter he summons, making matter with negative mass, and thus anti-gravity, but that’s pretty advanced physics, and he’s admitted that he’s not Nobel material.

        You’ve got a point that anyone who noticed him leaving wouldn’t necessarily know where he was going, unless they can figure out how to track him.

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      3. The real question would be about there being gods on Mars?. Apparently in the book you need life to have some form of God or Elemental/Great Beast. If there is no primordial mind or life for them to touch no matter how primitive or advanced. Then there probably will be no such creature showing up there. So the real question is was there life on Mars if there was are some of their own Great Beast still running around?

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      4. The existence of magic changes a lot. Earth has life that’s basically *made* of magic, so why shouldn’t Mars? It *might* not, but we don’t know what, if any, environmental conditions are necessary for magic-life as opposed to bio-life.

        Given magic-life on Mars, the environment might well have been modified early on in a way suitable for the development of bio-life, and thence higher-order magic-life (gods). Would make for an interesting space-operatic possibility:-).

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      5. Ah, you are correct, Jabrwok.

        Sylphs Of Mars, UNITE! Defend your world. Throw off the foreign yoke!

        Since we know there are volcanoes on Mars, there would also be Fire Elementals.

        Since we know there is a saltwater lake under one of the icecaps we know there are Water Elementals.

        Those imply Earth Elementals and other fun spirit creatures.

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      6. NASA seems to be right on the edge of finding some sort of microbial life on OUR version of Mars, maybe even alive today in that saltwater lake under one of the polar ice caps.

        If we find that much life, add magic and just about anything is possible on the Mars in Daniel’s new universe.

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      7. Yeah, but I just finished reading the whole series again and noticed that divination might just be flexible enough to “track” him down. It probably depends on how good the wards are.

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    1. I’ve strongly suspected that he’s going to end up hiding Mara’s sister in space to keep her away from Gaia.

      The next problem is in wondering whether a young god with a fertility aspect that was carried to term beside radiation poisoning is going to suffer/produce any unexpected side effects.

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      1. From what I’ve read in the books it seems that divine or semi divine beings are immune to radiation.

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      2. The divine seem not so much immune to radiation as their divine healing aspect is so powerful they can heal themselves faster than even massive radiation doses can kill them.

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      3. A nice idea, but does Daniel has the spare time to tackle such a project??? Rigth now he doesn’t have any project that can give him an edge in such an undertaking, nor it is to my believe he has any knowladge about it. If he had more time for it it is a good alternative.

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      4. Actually, Paps, it seems to me that Daniel has already constructed his spacecraft.

        It’s called Black Island.

        Remember, he always starts his architectural projects with a super strong foundation and builds on top of that.

        Add some sort of space drive, probably based on his force magic, and launch Black Island to Mars.

        His and Elin’s magics, plus the dryad groves, plus Clan Nethwillin’s varied expertise, would both make the island self-sufficient and fill any future needs via trade.

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      5. Yes but he hasn’t worked in propulsion jet, nor a navigation system, or how to seal and maintina atmosphere, I know he is smart and all but those things isn’t knowladge he will have laying around and will need a lot of calculus and test (I think), I believe he will have to invest a good time in testing phase before he can actually device something workable.

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      6. Totally agree that Daniel will have to spend some time in testing, Paps, however….

        1) Propulsion is just force magic. Daniel uses that all the time in his guns, personal flight, etc.
        2) Navigation MIGHT be Clan Nethwillin’s job, if they can make the “leap” from flight to spaceflight.
        3) Astrogation will definitely require future development before starflights happen.
        4) Sealing and maintaining atmosphere is force magic again. Daniel does this all the time for himself.

        Systems maintenance, making all the complexities work together, in synergy if possible, will definitely require more of Daniel’s time, testing and MAYBE some mathematics but probably not any calculus.

        Sorcery and magical prototyping totally trump calculus and are MUCH more fun, too!

        Daniel could build a personal spacecraft at any time given his current state of knowledge — he better plan for plenty of room to include Alanna and Cerise on the crew.

        Transporting his Black Island arcology to Mars would take months, maybe a year or more.

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      7. Ok you sold me the idea, but a year is been way to optimistics, I mean he berely created bugs, we need computers, space suits, new trasnportations device, not to mention the training programs for it. Maybe he can create a probe for the baby, but with out a means of comunication or a trasnport to guet him there and down fast….

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      8. Why does Daniel need computers? He would benefit much more by spending the time to develop spirit magic interfaces. Putting a willing spirit volunteer in charge of a spacecraft should provide much better control than a makeshift magic computer.

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      9. Well so far I don’t remember spirit magic been well explained, but spirits have will and their own knowledge you can’t program them to know something they don’t even have concepts for. Yes they migth be able to be teached but how long will that be. Besides Daniel will be way to busy with surviving for the coming years not to mention the time it will take him for creating weapons, taking refugees, politics, and more. A space program rigth now will take him a lot of time. Heck he migth try to consider doing a submarine one first.

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      10. They already have the equivalent of a magic computer. The ring the elves let him us. “One ring to program them. One ring to calculate them. One ring to compute them. And in the darkness land on them.”

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      11. Good point, DaShoota. That ring is a solid example of how complex enchantments can be, and Daniel did have time to study it. I suppose having Clan Nethwillin close and friendly will help him try creating something equally complex…when he has the time to do so. We’re talking LOTS of spell “code” here. I just saw a picture of the lady who was in charge of the software programming team for EAGLE’s computer. The stack of books of printed lines of code, probably all FORTRAN, written to land two men and a vehicle on the Moon, was literally taller than she was. Not by much, but taller.

        Then, too, Daniel will have to learn by experiment what he wants the code to activate, or deactivate, and how much he wants it activated, in the spacecraft system he has not created yet for the spaceship he has not built.

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      12. Paps he has everything he needs now to build a space probe that can tern itself into a gate of sorts. That golem he made to break out the big bad wolf is all he needs.

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      13. Yes but Daniel has no knowladge of space time magic at the time, nor has he been studying anything that can help him in that field, to create some sort of Portal, what he can guet is Allana help in implemating a tree that he can use to guet there, like he used to escape Vallhalla, but I don’t know it seems like a really risky project for him by the moment. Besides he doesn’t know what kind of security or weaponery he should install to protect it.

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      14. Gaia’s newest baby goddess will probably be born apparently perfect or nearly so, due to Gaia’s divine healing aspect. That’s not to say there cannot be subtle changes. It just seems unlikely they would be obviously unhealthy changes.

        The radiation Daniel spread around Gaia’s home will annoy Her tremendously, but She will banish vast amounts of soil, creatures, trees, plants, followers and bedrock until the nuisance fades away.

        Ironically, Gaia Herself will probably have to banish her entire sleeping army as it rots on the vine. At some point not very long after the dying begins She will realize they are all going to rot and She must contain the damage before it spreads even further. Even She cannot heal all the transport beasts and warriors and cleanse all the supplies, and when she tries, the radiation just keeps poisoning them again and again. She will rage against the realization, but Her patience will quickly be exhausted.

        She will banish everything she even suspects is toxic, and everything that touches it, and that will probably actually fix most of the problem, long before the baby is born.

        The timing of all this is very interesting, however. How much control over Her own conception and gestation does Gaia exercise? She’s going to be exposed to the worst of the radiation simultaneously with the earliest development of the new baby.

        Will there be any opportunity for a few gammas to rearrange some divine DNA?

        Are the Norns giggling over this tiny deviation in Gaia’s plans?

        Is Fortuna still around somewhere, dabbling in divine Fate?

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      15. “Ironically, Gaia Herself will probably have to banish her entire sleeping army as it rots on the vine.”

        I am sorry, but no. That exaggerates the effects of radiation by many orders of magnitude. For human beings there are about two orders of magnitude (very roughly) between a dose that will eventually kill you in a few weeks and something that will kill you instantly. Unless they eat the corpses or grow crops on a mass grave they are safe.

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  3. I was rereading Thrall. Did the Lightbringers get into the Spire by turning themselves undead? It’s hard to tell, but that seems like the easiest method.

    Also, who wants to bet that Caspar’s unit of Einherjar is going to be sent to Kozalin?
    It just seems like Brand was seasoning the guy, and that he fell far enough in the battle rankings to be taken off the main line of battle at a convenient time, and is insufficiently competent and familiar with the terrain to run a raiding battlegroup.
    Brand could probably predict that the city defence would fall apart without a royal, and the Dark Portal might make it strategically important enough to warrant a single detachment of mostly green Einherjar, just purely because adding a tenth portal to their existing nine might be useful.

    Also just repeating this, but the situation with the Vanir and the wives going through the Dark Portal is toxic enough that Aphrodite could totally compromise the defences of Asgard. She’s probably just waiting for more Einherjar to have their wives come through before she sets things up so that all of the hall wenches made of the former widows are caught sleeping with their commanding officers or veterans or something, so as to set off everything at once for maximum impact.

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    1. The Lightbringer assassins who fought Daniel in the Spire probably managed to get in and live long enough to be troublesome by equipping themselves with fantastically powerful and fast-acting healing amulets, potions, spells, etc. That seems most consistent with their demonstrated ability to survive some of Daniel’s magical counterattacks during the fight on the streets of Asgard.

      It would make sense for them to be prepared to heal quickly and well whenever they know they will face Atlantean or other wizards. It’s virtually guaranteed they’re going to suffer damage, probably fatal damage, almost certainly massive fatal damage.

      Ability to heal LOTS of damage quickly is probably a qualification for becoming a Lightbringer.

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      1. If the Lightbringers(and demigods and great beasts) that he’s facing are regenerators maybe he could look into a counter for that?
        The local solution seems to be death magic(with a side order of acid, magic scrambling, etc.), but this seems like a problem for Flesh Sorcery.
        Some sort of subtle enchantment on his attacks that subverts healing to induce cancer could be crippling, even to enemies far above his normal power level.
        Potentially coupled with more common effects.

        Well, it’s not like the problem came up enough to have to do anything about it before he started edging into his current power level, where it seems like one of the standard tricks to survive powerful attacks is powerful regeneration.

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      2. Daniel generally tends not to have time for subtle, although he is working on making more time to take for thought, research and development.

        Cancer seems too much like radiation–divine healing could be assumed to deal with cancer twice before breakfast.

        Remember, Daniel’s own magic is not divine and he can deal with both cancer and radiation.

        I suspect you are on to something with using Flesh magic to attack a divine opponent, but instead of subtle and slow, perhaps Daniel will come up with something sudden and overwhelming. That’s essentially what he did to Gaia’s sleeping army. A single dose of fatal radiation She could deal with, even for the whole army. Millions of fatal doses continuously recurring all at what seems to Her the same moment, are beyond even Her ability to heal, heal again, heal again…Daniel really wins this one with the insidious continuing hazard of radioactive isotopes.

        Too bad he dares not simply create a wide beam particle ray weapon. Technically, he could do that at any time he chooses. Of course, using it would have nasty collateral damage as well as being horribly compromising. He’d very likely be associated with the attack even if he was not there personally pulling the trigger. Several Gods would probably unite to quickly help Lightbringers take him down.

        Daniel needs to be sneaky again…very sneaky. He has to make the attack look like it came from some divine source without being too obvious about it. Gods have to suspect each other, each of them with convincing and sufficient reasons. Alanna might be helpful in that, if she chooses to be.

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      3. Subtle doesn’t mean slow, it just means difficult to detect. Specifically the spell should be aimed at being difficult to detect while hidden in the other magic on the battlefield, but its effects should be obvious.

        The goal has little to do with radiation.
        The goal is to make their healing attempts screw up, so they get a useless lump of tumors if they try to fix an injured arm, and maybe so they start growing rumors all over their bodies if they have a full-body healing spell/ natural regenerative ability running.

        It might only be practical to mess up healing injuries though, as if the opponent is powerful it might require quite the power flow, making it more obvious.

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      4. I’d have to recommend re-reading the section in EXTERMINATION where Daniel helps Hecate with Her healing a wound caused by a god-killer weapon.

        Hekate, and by implication some/most other gods, has extremely powerful healing magic.

        Hekate, by virtue of her age and interest in magics, probably has healing magic more powerful than many other gods/goddesses.

        If I remember correctly, Gaia is older than Hekate, and probably more closely tuned to things biological, like healing and inflicting illness.

        Daniel will have to be very careful, very thorough and very certain he has a trick at least as effective as isotopes.

        Not saying he won’t think of something.

        I wonder if Gaia is capable of sensing when She is invaded by nanites?

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      5. Well for that trick to work Daniel would need an extremely high powerfull magic source for the attack not to be simple overwrited by the God Magic, remember when Daniel gave Hecate one of his stone powersource for magic, it was barely usefull to relieve some of the burden in her natural healing ability, wich mean that the most powerfull powersource he has created so far is not enough to overpower a Godly beign.

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      6. Gaia can reform her body. In the worst case she would conjure a lava flow and jump into it. I am afraid attacking her would have to work on a spiritual level.

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      7. Totally agree with you on this, Oliver. A lava bath and total vaporization would pretty thoroughly eliminate my nanites attack, also.

        Worse, with Her experience and power, Gaia might return VERY quickly…as in seconds or minutes.

        Daniel will probably have to consult with Alanna on the subject of divine spirit magic. Then, as Paps observed, develop a power supply several orders of magnitude greater than his most efficient matter to mana device(s).

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      8. Daniel needs to develop a Slaver Stasis Field or Bobble. Pop that around Gaia and let her rot for a few billion years. By the time the field is deactivated (assuming a secure power source…Gaia herself?) she’ll be someone else’s problem, or Daniel will have ascended to a point where she’s barely noticeable in comparison.

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