Daniel Black Open Thread

There seem to be a lot of people who still want to talk about what Daniel ought to be doing and what enchantments he should be working on, so I figured I’d give you a better place to do it that the comments of an unrelated post. I may even answer a few questions, as long as they don’t give away anything I have planned for future books.

Of course, the answer to most questions of the form ‘why hasn’t Daniel done X’ is ‘he hasn’t had time’. At the end of Extermination it’s only been about three months since he was summoned, and he’s been insanely busy for that entire time. So his enchantment work has focused almost entirely on things he could do quickly, without having to spend much time figuring things out.

The other point I want to mention, though, is that Daniel isn’t intended to be some perfectly hyper-competent superman. He’s just a guy who had enough brains, imagination and determination to get the job done, at least so far. But there were several places where I intentionally had him do things that turned out to be a mistake because it fit his attitude at the time, or because he had no way of knowing better. That’s going to continue to happen in the future, although he is learning.

My inspiration for Daniel actually comes from some of the more capable players I’ve met in tabletop RPG games over the years. You know that guy who can debate everything from Napoleonic military tactics to advanced space launch technologies? The one who keeps bypassing the GM’s carefully constructed plot complications by doing something clever but sensible instead of just charging after the obvious plot hooks? The one who always seems to be overpowered, because he reads all the rulebooks and carefully min-maxes his  characters? That’s Daniel.

The trouble is, it’s a lot easier to talk about things than to actually do them. Real life doesn’t come with a rulebook, and just because you watched a video about something once doesn’t mean you can do it. So even with the huge cheat of mana sorcery, there’s going to be a lot of trial and error in Daniel’s future.

He’s still frustrated that he can’t remember how a Geiger counter is supposed to work…

2,177 thoughts on “Daniel Black Open Thread

  1. New Thread – What is Hecate’s plan.

    We know the Fimbulwinter started with Hecate on the ropes. A powerful Titan who has been fighting the Aesir for a thousand plus years. She has no tokens of power left. Her stronghold broken (ie – where the souls of her worshipers resided) and her worshiper’s dead spirits now controlled by Hel. She is down to her last worshiper. Summoning Daniel was a desperate gamble facilitated by prophecy.

    So what is her plan now? We have some clues
    1) She is clearly using the Fimbulwinter to recruit allies (Hestia, Bast, that Aesir goddess with the apples) and worshipers (the dark elves, the dryads, Daniel). The fimbulwinter is making so many people desperate that it creates a good recruiting opportunity for Hecate while distracting her enemies from focusing on her.

    2) She clearly wants Daniel to create a refuge that can survive the war — and perhaps the Fimbulwinter

    3) She is clearly worried about the Great Beasts destroying all when the Ragnarok is over. To counter that, she has to recruit a lot of powerful beings who are capable of killing great beasts.

    4) She is doing dangerous things. Example – she arrived to see Daniel with a major wound by a god killer.

    5) She has stated outright that she has many plans in the hopper.

    My personal theory is that she is working to create a pantheon of outcast and renegade gods and goddesses to take over after Ragnarok basically destroys all the participants. This pantheon will need many worshipers, bases of power and allies. Her focus is on surviving the aftermath as much as it is to survive the Ragnarok itself.

    Hecate does not feel like a goddess that wants to rule or dominate things. She is not creating an empire. She is focused on creating a powerful force that survives Ragnarok – and thus can save the survivors. If she can do the Aesir dirty in the process, so much the better. But it is not her focus. Which (both the not wanting an empire and the focus on surviving the aftermath) is very wise of her.

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    1. I agree with most of this, especially Hecate’s plans.

      She may have a few tokens/implements on her person, and maybe a few other cumbersome ones hidden around the world that She does not dare visit for fear Heimdal might notice and there goes THAT token.

      For her plans, don’t assume she won’t rule if it is forced upon her. She’s in a similar position to Daniel’s–lead or die.

      Part of the reason she’s recruiting a pantheon that suits her is the certainty that there is a power void about to happen in Varmland and other parts of Europe when Loki and Odin tear into each other and one or both fall.

      You know what happens to power voids — they fill up with something.

      Hecate is all too aware of all sorts of things she does NOT want to fill that void.

      She will do what she can to influence/control the next European pantheon.

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    2. You may notice that her pantheon leaves her in an antagonistic position towards Ra, who is ruling Egypt. Hence she will have to prepare for war if only for a deterrent potential. Hence she will need to look for external allies (Levant? Persia? Arabia? Africa?). That in turn means that she will have to have military assets of her own.

      If her power base is supposed to be Europe, which needs to be repopulated (by assistance of the godesses of marriage and love and childbirth?), she will need Daniel to take it over and rebuild it as quickly as possible with magic technology. Hence he will have to rule it. Being her champion that puts herself on the line, too.

      The logic of empire is asserting itself.

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      1. Can’t argue with that. Might have to look at the Hittite pantheon for opponents to Ra and his gang. Of course, they went to dust long before Olympus was whacked.

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      2. Now we are getting into an area where causality is in danger. There were no Greeks or Romans or whatever at the end of the last ice age. Yet Hecate and Zeus were alive. And there is the strange similarity of the pasts and myths of the worlds.

        I would tentatively, very tentatively, deduct that to exist in that world gods have to be recorded in our classical history (or inferred to exist). So roughly the empires and peoples between 500 BCE and 500CE.
        And if we want to keep sanity and causality then I think we have to assume that we got things backwards. Hecate could reach our world due to the similarities, not the other way round.

        So too late for Hittite gods or the gods of Sumer. But Assyrian gods look possible.

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      3. Actually, Oliver, “Hecate” and “Zeus” were NOT “alive” at the end of the previous Ice Age. The entities who eventually became Hecate and Zeus were “alive” then.

        They had different names and we would need to research the precursor gods’ and goddesses’ histories for them.

        You will notice that I did NOT mention the Minoan gods?

        That’s because at least some of them seem to be linked to the Mycenaean gods who became the Greek gods.

        Hence, certain of the Greek gods, like Athena, might go back as far as 2,000 or 3,000 BC in their earliest forms.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athena

        Hecate may go back that far in Her previous, possibly Egyptian, form — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heqet

        As mentioned in — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hecate

        We definitely must expand the diety timeframe to something starting more like 1500 or even 3000 BC, plus, the Egyptians are probably even older and so could be any ancient Hittites, Babylonians, some Indians (Harappan), etc.

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      4. Name changes are an interesting thought Colin. The books give mixed signals. On one hand, the Olympian gods have their Greek names, not the roman ones even though the war with the Aesir only happened in the last thousand years or so (ie – well after the roman empire). That implies names do not change.

        But we also have Bast saying that Ra changed her reputation/worship and her name changed to Bastet with a clear drop in scope/power. That implies name changes both can happen and that they are significant.

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      5. Good point, DSpring. It’s probably worth noting that Ra demoted Bast to Bastet long before Rome existed, during the Eighteenth Dynasty — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastet

        Since magic was only formally organized for study and training something like 400 BC to 300 BC we must wonder what the political impacts of that were over the next two millennia.

        We are told that Asgard raped and razed Olympus.

        Does that mean Vikings (Varmlanders) invaded Greece and took over for at least a few months/years?

        The really interesting thing about name changes was that hint of Hecate maybe having been part of an Egyptian pantheon for a while.

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      6. “They had different names and we would need to research the precursor gods’ and goddesses’ histories for them.”

        Well that is the main problem. We know nothing nonphysical about live 11000 years ago. It definitely predates the split of proto-indoeuropean. So a division of Norse gods and the Olympians at that time makes no sense.

        Yet Hecate speaks of herself as remembering the end of the ice age as a young woman. So we give her a minimum age of about 12000 years. So we have a conflict between what we can conclude about our history and the gods of Daniel’s world.

        I think if Hecate claims to be as old as the end of the ice age we must give primacy to her account over our culture and myths. Here the worlds diverge.

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      7. Oliver sometimes I wonder whether or not the author is using us to hash out some of these issues involving the differentiation between the history of that world and the history of our world through the gods. It seems to be an issue that Daniel has thought on several times himself.

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      8. I can speculate.

        1. The many worlds hypothesis is true.
        2. Similarity makes traffic easier and safer
        3. You aim by minds, hence the similarity of legends and history, not similarity of actual history
        4. The number of minds counts, so well know legends cleared Hecate’s path

        So Daniel’s world has a history that does not match our actual history, but what we consider history. Many people know reasonably accurate stuff about the Roman Empire, so it matches and gods from wildly different historical times are mixed just because those are the legends people in our world actually know today.

        Now, I think this is plausible, but other speculations would be just as plausible. We simply lack clues.

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      9. There is a clue in the new released chapters. The magic users of Atlantis were called dream shamans maybe they actually influenced the mythologies of the world Daniel comes from through some form of astral projection or dream walking. Might be how they got some of their knowledge as well by stealing it from more advanced versions of earth.

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      10. Timing. Atlantis is supposed to have fallen thousands of years ago. THat was before there was Rome. Our mythology did not exist. Nor did they know about it in their world.

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      11. Oliver that is the biggest load of BS imaginable humans came into existence as we are today 67,000 years ago. Throughout that entire time there has been mythology. The first moment a man crawled out of the cave and looked at the stars he created the first myth about what they were where they came from how they got there. The first time a modern human opened their eyes and looked at the rising or setting sun was born a myth what is it how did it get there where did it come from where is it going is it coming back every imagined answer to these questions was a mythology. Just because it happened so long ago and before we had recorded history does not mean it did not exist it just means we can’t remember it.

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      12. Also Oliver there is the possibility of a nearly identical world that is just located at different points along there timeline. If somebody 12,000 years before the foundation of Rome looked into another universe exactly like there universe except it’s 12,000 years further along on its timeline will they see Rome?

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      13. “Throughout that entire time there has been mythology.”

        Sure. But different mythology. You cannot have Roman or Norse mythology before Rome existed or the Viking age. And apparently the timelines match. You need to explain that. You may resort to temporal manipulation, but that explains almost anything.

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      14. To explain the whole dream walking or astral projection thing? Any question you might have to wait until book 4 if you don’t have access to the patreon. Explaining the whole multi-verse different time thing? It’s one of the facets of the multi-verse concept different universes that are nearly identical in every way except for one thing. One of the things or possibilities they can be different in is that they can be at different points on their timeline other than that they can be identical. In some science fiction and fantasy that is used as a method to explain prophecy or the ability to see through time. They’re actually looking through dimensions into another universe that is simply at a different point on it’s timeline. Other than that small detail however the other universe is identical to their’s that is until they choose to change something. Then they see the various spin off universes highlighting all of the possibilities that could arise from that decision.

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      15. I think you all are creating a “hard” correlation between our mythology and the history of the world Daniel is in that might be “too hard”. It is interesting to discuss things this way, but remember you are all engaging in pure speculation with almost no support from the books or words of the author.

        Hypothetically, our world’s mythology could be the reflection of a dozen magical world’s mythology. Maybe there is another version of earth where the world is dominated by Slavic, Sumerian and Hindu gods and the Norse and Olympians pantheons never existed. Or maybe only “some” myths are dimly remembered versions of this world’s history as seen through dreams. While other myths are simply superstition and story telling.

        My point is that, unless the author says differently, we simply do not know how close things actually are.

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      16. dspring these are all good points and that’s the logic I was making following that exact same train of thought. Daniel has in his own mind and by talking to others speculated these things himself that’s what gave me the idea.

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      17. Well, we have at least two points of departure from “our” world’s mythology.

        1) Magic is real in the world of Cerise and Avilla. At some point in ancient times people began playing with it.

        2) Magic was formalized for study and applications, approximately during the times of Socrates.

        From one or both of these points forward, “our” history is different from “their” history.

        Note that there may well have been other, possibly MANY other points earlier than either of these.

        Example: when “our” universe first formed, there was no “magic particle” inside the atoms that evolved from the Big Bang. When “their” universe first formed, were there “magic particles” in the primordial soup? Did they spontaneously form out of tinier particles during the evolution of the first atoms?

        Cosmological Thaumatology Examination Question #1) Describe from fundamental principles the first ten seconds of the formation of the universe.

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      18. Colin that is only a potential trick question depending on which model of the universe you are using. Personally I subscribe to the electric universe model also referred to as plasma cosmology. Most of the greatest minds of our time while they talk about string theory and Quantum Loop theory they actually subscribe and their true research to the electric universe model. Such minds starting with Nikola Tesla, Albert Einstein, Oppenheimer, Schrodinger, and Stephen Hawking. Most of them that actually spoke about physics spoke in depth on string theory and Quantum Loop theory because that’s how they got most of the money for the real research it’s about the money it’s always about the money. Look up their True research on black holes and you’ll get a completely different picture of what they actually thought then what you hear them talk about on the TV.

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      19. DaShoota, is there room in Plasma Cosmology for something like a mana quark, or maybe a manatron?

        Maybe not in our current universe, but in one quite similar?

        We seem to have confirmation that Daniel sees some sort of mana elementary particle when he looks at humans, demon-devouring witches, sugar and spice golems and snow.

        I’d like to confirm whether or not he sees mana elementary particles everywhere he looks, but have not seen that, yet.

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      20. Colin I have no idea the best physicist I can think that you could get a hold of to ask would be Eric Lerner. I think instead of seeing manna everywhere Daniel is seeing concentrations of it that are beyond a certain point. I could be wrong but I think concentration enough to where it starts to glow in his sight. Also I’m not entirely convinced that Daniel is right about manna not existing at least in some form in the world he came from. After all that Goddess was able to produce a mini me hologram. Granted that could’ve been somehow Energy leaking from where she was into his universe. Though this would imply that manna could exist in his universe it just never came into existence naturally maybe manna in the universe he is in now replaces dark energy neutrinos or the Casimir effect who can say only the author.

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      21. Well he theorized that if Mana existed in his world, it should have long been discovered given that it is an energy and the modern studys should have stumbled into this mysterios energy. The problem with that theory is that Daniel assumes that he knows all the discoverys, maybe in fact mana has long been discovered but secretly studied all this time, like all the secret magical societys in those Paranormal contemporary fantazys, just that he isn’t “in the known” about it.

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      22. Or they just gave it another name neutrinos, Casimir effect, dark energy, dark matter etc. Or it could be one of those numerous subatomic particles that is mathematically theorized do exist but have not actually been isolated yet?

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      23. And in “our” universe, perhaps only the lowest energy levels of the “mana particles” have existed since the time of the Big Bang, so we don’t see much magic at all.

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      24. You would think if he saw manna everywhere all the time it would be like overlapping his normal vision with night vision or something he would never be completely in the dark. But so far from what I can tell in the books it seems to work like overlapping his normal vision with thermal vision of some type. Kind of like having certain concentrations of it glow the way something hot would glow if you look at it through thermal scope.

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      25. Good point. I had the impression Daniel needed to explicitly “focus” his Mana affinity on something in order to analyze its magic. If that is true, he would only see mana when and where he focuses. But you are still right, if “everything” contains mana quarks then when Daniel “focuses” what he sees would be a blur of light(s) that would fill his field of vision.

        Sigh. Another fine theory shot down in flames.

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      26. “From one or both of these points forward, “our” history is different from “their” history.

        Note that there may well have been other, possibly MANY other points earlier than either of these.”

        I would say that given the astronomical number of chance events in history we will need to invoke the many worlds hypothesis and some way for magic to select a similar world.

        I think we need to see that what can by chance happen the same way in both worlds therefore has. We need to look for plausibility. And there the big change is that gods actually are frequent actors in the world.

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      27. Ugg Waaay too deep on the magic issue, just chalk it up to the mythical “dark Energy and Dark Matter” and assume its here we just lost the ability to manipulate it.

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      28. “if “everything” contains mana quarks then when Daniel “focuses” what he sees would be a blur of light(s) that would fill his field of vision”

        Every object above absolute zero radiates electromagnetically. Yet we can see. That everything contains mana does not mean that everything contains the same amount or kind of mana in the same pattern. Those differences are potentially open to observation.

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      29. Good point. Daniel probably will find the magical activity of a boulder to be much less interesting than the magical activity inside Cerise or Tina.

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    3. @dspring Well its logical that her first priority is saving and increasing her anchors, thats why she summoned Daniel to save, and protect Cerise for a year. As you said she is on the ropes and she recognized that Ragnarok wouldn’t help her at all unless she had some insuerence, the best way she could have kept Cerise save was having someone else protec her, so she could keep eluding the Aesir. About the creation of another Pantheon I don’t know, it migth be posible because Gods do plan ahead but she migth be driven to the ropes and is desperate to create some alliance so she can actually breath a little. So far she is just in hoarding mode, saving any adavantage that she can take from this cahos and mae anything usefull with it.

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      1. @Paps if you remember the conversation from the second book and the third book she’s not actually following her own plans. The plan was given to her and she is utilizing it she’s following the instructions of Prometheus and she said her self he always could see farther than any other God.

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      2. “Well its logical that her first priority is saving and increasing her anchors, thats why she summoned Daniel to save, and protect Cerise for a year”

        If that were her only concern, why didn’t she instruct Daniel to flee the Northlands?

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      3. Because she wasn’t micromanaging him, she knew the risks of summoning him, but was well aware of his planning capability so she decided ti trust his decision making.

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      4. Read the chapter in BLACK COVEN where they create their coven bonds.

        When Hecate visits their ritual She declares it is the best of the future possibilities She had foreseen.

        Hence, I’m assuming that Hecate not only follows her own plans for the future but also has some ability to view options and consequences.

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      5. Agree that preserving her anchors is her first priority, but I also believe that Hecate sees the events of Ragnarok as a potential game changer. On one hand, she is working hard to prevent extinction of everybody. On the other hand, his is her best opportunity to disrupt the current power structure in a serious way.

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      6. Of course given the chance she is going to use everything she can to gain something from this, I just don’t think that atack is in her priority list at the moment, but one must never attempt to undersatand such an old and powerfull beins, so I have no idea what she migth be cooking in the background.

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      7. Agreed.

        I also have to wonder if maybe her risk of offending the “rules” gods for bringing Daniel into Varmland was reduced due to the ancient Great Beasts stomping around Italy and Egypt devouring cities.

        Taking maximum advantage of a momentary opportunity seems like a very Hecate thing to do.

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  2. Another thread – What pantheons exist and what other gods are we likely to see. Based on the text, there seems to be four major pantheons left in the world: Aesir, Coyote and his bunch (presumably the gods of the Americas), Ra and his bunch (Egyptian gods) of Middle east and Africa and the Chinese gods. There are also broken pantheons mentioned of the Olympians and the Titans. Most of their divinities are dead, but some survive from each pantheon. Prometheus, Gaia, and Hecate from the Titans, Hestia, Hecate, and Poseidon from the Olympians were all specifically mentioned.

    Will see see any other gods. These are all seem based on major empires, so arguably we can see maybe the Hindu or Babylonian gods might have once existed as both had wide spread, huge population, long lasting civilizations. Or maybe not. The world Daniel finds himself in does not appear to have loads of surplus gods, so that implies that there were only ever a few pantheons. After all, the ability to kill a god reliably is a pretty recent phenomenon (last thousand years or so). If there had been a lot of pantheons and gods, there would have been more lone gods eking out an existence in corners of the globe.

    Some references imply that the Titans were first.
    a) They were deposed a long time ago
    b) The Titans made the treaty that barred traveling to earth — and it apparently binds all the gods.

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    1. @Dspring. When Hecate mentioned “Gods of the East”. I thought of the Chinese and Indian Gods immediately (maybe Japanese), both of which are very XENOPHOBIC, and filled with so many religious nuts that the Gods might be powerful enough to protect their people.

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    2. So far we have not seen the Hittite and Mitanni pantheon(s) which would have been contemporaries of Ra and His crew.

      We have also not seen the Carthaginian/Phoenician pantheon, the Assyrians (NASTY), the Romans, the Gauls and the Etruscans.

      Note: We might not expect to see the Carthaginian pantheon since the Romans made a concerted effort to stomp Carthage into the ground, then pour salt on the ground, then plow the salt into the ground.

      Sounds a lot more interesting now, after reading the Daniel Black series….

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    3. Slavic gods (Russian mercenaries are mentioned), Baltic gods, the gods of Persia before Ahura Mazda took over (also a major empire), the Arabic gods, the gods of Africa, the Polynesian gods and of course India..

      And the Americas are vast, unlikely to be ruled by a single pantheon.

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    4. Oliver you are wrong. The Titans were not the first Hackett mentions being a part of the ferry courts during the Ice Age before of the titans. Also the Titans did not create a pact with the beings beyond that was Zeus he created the deal that bands all the gods.

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      1. Maybe Loki is known for being clever they wouldn’t be beyond reason for him to have multiple plans of survival. Have his own pantheon ready to fight against Oden and maybe the potential of a back up pantheon in case things go bad.

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      2. Loki plans to destroy Odin and Valhalla. He seems to be assembling his own pantheon to fill the deity void which follows that. Since Hecate seems to have attracted Bast into Her new pantheon, one must wonder if Loki has also attracted any moldy old gods or goddesses.

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      3. The text clearly stated that the Titans made the restriction on creating new sorcerers (aka – traveling to Daniel’s earth) and that Hecate takes that restriction seriously enough (or perhaps the likely bad reaction of the other side) that she was very careful in how she broke it — and even then only broke it when facing near certain defeat when her last anchor point died.

        The text stated that it was Zeus that bound the greater beasts in Tartarus along with some titans.

        Which raises a nice point. Which titans were bound in Tartarus and are now free as Mara freed a lot of things bound in Tartarus.

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      4. ” and even then only broke it when facing near certain defeat when her last anchor point died”

        Yet she seemed to know what she was doing. So did Zeus defeat the Titans creating an army of sorcerers and Hecate took part. On the other hand she claimed that this was the first time this was done for somebody from a world like Daniel’s. It seems to me that she selected Daniel for his knowledge of modern technology. If she had wanted just a sorcerer she would have gone to a closer world.

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      5. Oliver I’m not sure if you remember the beginning of the first book when Daniel first appeared in that world it’s mentioned that she spoke of his many great achievements which are actually things he’s done as a gamer maybe she chose him for his ability to (game the system so to speak.)

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      6. Don’t forget Hecate’s “divinations” that are mentioned by reference at several key moments.

        She might not ONLY have chosen Daniel for his science, but also for a limited range of “worst case to best case” visions of possible futures involving him and Her.

        Maybe even if Daniel fails and Cerise dies, Beri might become the world’s nastiest murder witch ever with revenge killings and leading Hecate’s surviving worshippers through the rest of Fimbulwinter.

        Presumably, there were a few other (probably VERY few) candidates other than Daniel, but Hecate likes her divinations about him better then theirs.

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      7. “game the system so to speak”

        To think outside the box, you need to know it has an outside. Daniel’s personality without his knowledge would be worth much less.

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    5. ” If there had been a lot of pantheons and gods, there would have been more lone gods eking out an existence in corners of the globe.”

      Raising the question how we would know. How deep can a deity sink? Could an old man living in a cottage on the edge of a swamp be a Celtic god surviving hard times by selling love potions to stupid youngsters?

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      1. Speculation of course.

        Here is my logic: A god can be in hiding (which is really what Hestia has been doing), but Fimbulwinter will tend to bring them out if they are in the North. Even in hiding, they must protect their few remaining worshipers and anchors.

        Gods are powerful and we already established that a god with one worshiper can be powerful (aka – Hecate). So these hidden gods are going to have to start to act to protect their followers, but we have seen no sign. This certainly does not mean there are no gods in hiding, but it does mean that there are not scores of such gods lying around the north.

        Besides, I suspect any one pantheon has only a few dozen full gods and many a hundred or so demigods. So even if there were another ten crushed pantheons out there, there are likely to be only 1-2 dozen surviving gods spread over the whole world. But these gods would be the most powerful – because only the most powerful gods can survive with almost all their anchors lost.

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      2. “Here is my logic: A god can be in hiding (which is really what Hestia has been doing), but Fimbulwinter will tend to bring them out if they are in the North. Even in hiding, they must protect their few remaining worshipers and anchors.”

        If and only if they are in the north. Would they be? Would you put your followers into the heartland of another pantheon or rather into border areas?

        “Gods are powerful and we already established that a god with one worshiper can be powerful (aka – Hecat). So these hidden gods are going to have to start to act to protect their followers, but we have seen no sign.”

        Hecate? Hestia? Aren’t they hidden gods?
        The thing is that those gods would wish to hide their activities

        “This certainly does not mean there are no gods in hiding, but it does mean that there are not scores of such gods lying around the north.”

        Isn’t Kozalin with so many temples and wizards with all their wards and divinations the last place a rogue god would hide in?

        “So even if there were another ten crushed pantheons out there, there are likely to be only 1-2 dozen surviving gods spread over the whole world”

        Given the size of the world why not thousands?

        “But these gods would be the most powerful – because only the most powerful gods can survive with almost all their anchors lost.”

        Or sneakiest.

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      3. May be the reason coyote isn’t joining the fight is because he’s concerned about the African spider making an appearance?

        Trichster God to Trichster God.

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      4. Or really, REALLY faded, like the Hittite gods.

        About the only “faithful” they have would be a few wandering shepherds who might have wondered about the oddly carved stones laying around some ancient ruins up in central Anatolia.

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      5. Sure!

        That’s exactly how I’d expect to find an old, faded Celtic god.

        We know that Bast lost much more than that — she was reduced to nothing but a faded spirit and a relatively “tiny” well of power, plus knowledge and affinities.

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      1. Chade, it might be that Oz is isolated, or maybe not.

        Nethwillin showed Daniel an accurate map of northern Europe. Maybe they can show him an equally accurate map of Australia? If not them, maybe some other clan of Dark Elves could?

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  3. Anyone have any recommendations for fantasy books while we wait for daniel black 4?

    Some books I would recommend:

    Cradle Series by Will Wight
    Worth the Candle by cthuluraejepsen (free)
    Red Sister by Mark Lawrence
    World of Prime series by MC Planck

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    1. For stories of approximately equal quality and theme, but urban paranormal rather than fantasy, look at the John Conroe DEMON ACCORDS.

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      1. I was planning on recomending the same series, I started it yesterday actually and I am enjoying the 1 book, hope the rest doesn’t dissapoint. The Iron Druid Chronicle is also a good one.

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  4. Agree the gods might not all be in the north. But if there are dozens of such hidden gods, then “some” of them would be in the north. After all, we are talking about a lot of territory/people.

    At the end of the day, what I am saying is that we “should” see a lot more evidence of rogue gods if there were a lot of them. The fact that we only know of four — and they are all Olympians – gives some good evidence that there were never a lot of pantheons. Especially as it has been made clear that killing.

    You can always argue that their “could” be a lot of hidden gods. The author, after all, has not said anything to the contrary. But there is no evidence to show that those hidden gods exist beyond a few Olympian survivors of their big war.

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    1. Good points. But still something is fishy.
      Intuitively we said there are more demigods than gods. Yet we have seen no rogue demigod. That makes me suspect we haven’t seen a representative sample.

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      1. Consider how difficult mere survival has been for Hecate, who was once a Titan. It’s not any surprise that we don’t see many/any “rogue” demigods. The poor, wee things should have been stepped on and squished, ages ago.

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      2. @Colin The other gods may have been eaten. She did mention that that was one method they used to use to permanently put down a God and God’s where cannibalistic in many legends and myths. Even Zeus devoured his first wife. One thing Daniel needs to worry about that I don’t think has crossed his mind yet his first daughter is a goddess she’s already expressed an interest in him and gods and goddesses are highly incestuous. As well as the fact that gods and goddesses do not always distinguish between consent and non-consent. Just a threat to Daniel that doesn’t seem to have crossed his mind yet. I hope he doesn’t wait until that little cat girl hits puberty because then she might decide to come after him and there may not be a lot he can do against a goddess of war, battle and sensuality Who has suddenly gotten it into her head to figure out what S&M is.

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      3. “there may not be a lot he can do against a goddess of war, battle and sensuality Who has suddenly gotten it into her head to figure out what S&M is.” And at that moment is when he use Aunt Cerise, and Avilla to teach her all she want, heck he can even throw Demetrios in there to give a helping hand!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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      4. Fortunately, that risk seems likely to be several (FUN) books in Daniel’s future…we can all devoutly hope!

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      5. Why? What prevents a demigod from living as an ordinary person? Sure, they have to move as it shows that they don’t age normally (if they are at that stage), but as long as they care to live in places you can avoid priests, where is the issue?

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      6. Okay, maybe the sneaky Irish demigods can survive millennia, but I have a difficult time imagining Herakles surviving ten days on his own. It’s all in the attitude…and the sneakiness.

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      7. @Colin that particular demigod despite the way the movies and television shows betray him is not known for his brains. In fact in the myths and legends he is decidedly known for being the exact opposite he’s known for being a complete moron.

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      8. Hi, DaShoota.

        Herakles’ reputation for less than remarkable intellectual self-development is exactly my point.

        If you think about Mara’s brothers, it’s difficult imagining them surviving long by themselves on the run in Europe after the fall of Olympus.

        In fact, one must wonder how many times Gaia has “helped” to resurrect them, even though they are so well protected by Her in the pocket world She withdrew to.

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      9. Colin you are right though I could see them surviving on an Ork world in 40K provided they have plenty of green paint 🤢.

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      10. This one was answered in the books. Remember, all gods, even demigods, need anchors. Hecate explained to Daniel that demigods are highly reliant on anchors while the great gods are less so.

        Since god wars are all about destroying anchors, the demigods are easy kills.

        Counterargument – gods wars by destroying anchors is relatively recent. In the god wars of the past (ie – pre destruction of Olympus) the gods were more into binding their enemies in prisons and punishments like Tartarus (aka – what happened to Prometheus). So there could concievably be a lot of older demigods bound somewhere.

        Counter – Counter point. It is hard to have worshipers or effective anchors after being MIA for several thousand years. Not clear if a bound god needs anchors.

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      11. “Remember, all gods, even demigods, need anchors”

        To resurrect themselves. They seem to survive just fine without anchors, they are just not immortal in the strict sense.

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  5. DaShoota, I’d agree with you that Daniel knows enough about carbon nanotubes that he could think of doing this.

    He’s also demonstrated the functional concept, by summoning stone around a meteoric nickel-iron structure to build parts of Black Island’s structures.

    Now we just need to figure out whether he can manipulate matter at the nano-scale. So far he’s only done the micro-scale and cheated at that, using his Flesh affinity to create muscle, bone, etc.

    So, with a chunk of time to figure out what he wants to do and then more time to figure out how, he might create a sword with carbon nano-reinforcement.

    Then he has to be really careful not to get into fights with Fire spellslingers who cook his blade until the carbon shakes itself out of the nanotube configuration and slips into the iron to form a more brittle steel….

    Still, the exercise would give him an education in nano-scale manipulation, tricky carbon summoning and sword design.

    Too bad it won’t teach him how to use a sword better — he sucks at that, and he knows it.

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    1. Yah he really needs to work with his elves and satyrs to try and improve his swordsmanship. they might be able to help him very very very very very very hopefully might!

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      1. In all that spare time he has for waving metal sticks around…right.

        What really sucks is Daniel could easily beef up the muscles and bone structure in his arms and wrists to enable professional level sword swinging, but…he cannot create muscle memory with magic. That will require hours and hours of practice swinging swords against expert trainers.

        He SO needs to do that, and he knows it, and he knows he cannot possibly spend the time, hence he cannot possibly build himself up to good enough to cross swords with a Varmlander veteran soldier, much less a cranky old Sergeant or, Goddess help him, some idiot noble or warlord who has practiced for sixty years!

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      2. You are rigth in that regard Colin, he can create the muscles in his body for it, and even give himself the reflexs of a swordmaster, but without a proper technique to use that, he will find himself really out of his depth in those squirmish he has been in. So far he has been lucky because of how OP his weapons are and he has mainly been figthing monster that act more on instic that any sort of technique.

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      3. Familiar bonds work both ways, don’t they?
        And quite a lot of good swordsmen’s souls should still float around the city from Hel’s invasion.

        With bags of holding carrying a spear on your belt at all times is also practical. He could give Grinder a makeover and turn him into a combined lightsaber / spearhead.

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      4. Good point, Oliver. I’d bet that somewhere in all the books of arcane knowledge that Daniel and Elin find there may be some spell to enchant a sword with the soul of a great swordsman. Now all Daniel has to do is find that book and the correct page…

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      5. No, I am sorry, but the point is important.
        Daniel needs to find somebody who knows how to find such books. He needs a research assistant. Even a team of them. And he needs to buy them library priviledges.

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      6. We already have a mechanism for Daniel to become a good (although perhaps not great) swordsman. The elves had that ring that “taught” him a language at least while he was wearing it. No reason they could not build another ring that gave the wielder great skill with weapons. Now the elves would not have built it (as they already have that skill through their training), but it would obviously be possible.

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      7. DSpring, that’s a good idea. Maybe the Dark Elves can build and enchant a sword for Daniel that grants him some expertise and lets him add some of his own enchantments for extra massive destruction.

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    2. Well if he manages to summon the raw material, he could deliver it to the Blacksmiths to see how they can work with it. Even the one that had administrative position relinquished it so he must have the time to work in it, and shouldn’t Daniel spend some time in the forgue to understand better the craft of Blacksmithing it migth help him in creating impressive swords in the future.

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      1. Yes thats rigth DaShoota, he really needs to star working more with others share some of his ideas and how to make it posible in there. If he worked more with the blacksmith he migth come up with more easely use weapons to arm the peasents in case he needs numbers to figth. With the military advicers he can come up with better training regimen for new tactics and better armament for trained personal, with the witch he can improve his magic and the formulas a lot, and the elves for transportation and other logistics aspects.

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      2. Titanium chain mail would be a big mistake titanium is flammable in those small pieces titanium shavings can ignite seen it myself.

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      3. No. Titanium chainmail is NOT that flammable. Even the smallest links of chainmail are quite large enough to resist ignition. You’d have to mix powdered titanium with air at ignition temperature to achieve the effect I suspect you are imagining. It would take even more chemistry to achieve anything like thermite.

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      4. No not that much mixing powder with air titanium shavings taken off of a lathe can ignite with a cigarette lighter. Like I said I’ve done that. Each peace of material was about as thick as a sheet of paper and about 7 to 10 inches long. So at least thicker than that. Maybe if he created a non-flammable titanium alloy that could work. Or just made plate armor instead? Give the forges some enchanted gloves that protect their warriors from heat and gave them the ability to mold metal like wet clay. After that they only need manikins to mold it onto. Then the price between plated armor vs chainmail would swap with each other.

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      5. DaShoota, the more I think about it, the more I wonder.

        If a lighter flame can ignite thin shavings of titanium metal, what happens when a wizard scores a hit on a warrior who happens to be wearing either chain or scale mail?

        Adds a whole new world of meaning to “sparkle” (as in sparkler…)

        Hmm … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-WAauyFeFI

        And…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8ZaUBvrlmY

        What would you bet that Grinder can do this to bigger chunks of titanium?

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      6. Colin I would not like to be the guy wearing that armor to find out!

        I know that large or thick pieces don’t combust easily. I also know they can be heated up until it’s red hot and can be pounded win soft in that state into shape how hot a large piece would have to get to combust. No idea I would not want to find out when wearing it.

        On the bright side he does have the ability to make objects heat resistant or heat proof so maybe viable maybe not?

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      7. “I have myself set titanium shavings on fire with a cigarette lighter.”

        Wow!

        That’s a lot worse than I’d have thought. Still, cainmail links are between 1/16 inch and 1/8 inch diameter wire and about half an inch in diameter rings, or larger.

        Maybe titanium scale mail would be a better idea, Viking style or Japanese style.

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      8. Not sure I know a plate of titanium doesn’t combust easily I have my own shop I work in it sometimes for a hobby and I have myself set titanium shavings on fire with a cigarette lighter. How big the pieces have to be to not burn i’ve never checked.

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    3. Why would he want to do swordsmanship? With all the magic he has at his disposal investing the time to become good at wielding swords is a total waste. There is are a lot of good reasons people abandoned swords for firearms – he even removed the worst drawback, which is ammunition. And even the firearm is just a workaround until he has enough knowledge to deliver what spells he wants where he wants them.

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      1. All good points, Anton. The swordsmanship issue tends to catch Daniel by surprise at awkward moments, which are inherently fraught with personal risk. We’re poking at partial solutions that might help him survive long enough to activate that killer spell or enchanted item.

        …and enjoying, of course, those moments when Daniel is so painfully self-aware of his personal limitations in a sudden melee combat situation.

        He could learn a LOT from High Adept Steelbinder…but Steelbinder would also learn a LOT from Daniel.

        Such a complicated existence for our hero..

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      2. I wonder whether that is true. Are missile weapons always viable in a world whose gravity may be open to manipulation? Or where enemies may be surrounded by multiple layers of winds beyond hurricane force? Daniel himself can protect himself against his guns.

        It may be necessary to get up close and personal. And in that case a way to touch your enemy with a weapon could be an advantage.

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      3. Yes. And exactly for that reason Steelbinder may choose to do exactly that. And if he knows that ‘flashstep’ trick Leo learned, he would be very hard to avoid.

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      4. Think I’m in line with Anton, a sword just takes too much time to learn to use properly. Developing magazines for his guns to increase the fire rate, reduce the size from sawed off shotgun to that of a colt and work on his quick draw. I’ll take a gunslinger over a samurai any day, the speed and physics just favor the gunslinger and really which is easier to learn and carry? Danial needs to increase his fire rate and the speed of his rounds and decrease the size of the weapon (or increase his size) and he avoids years of training or complex spell weaving involved in making a ring that grants him a skill. Imagine how fast Cerise would be w a pair of colt .45’s

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      5. Or, heck, go for some really nasty overkill. Put a claymore on his chest, with a force field to stop the recoil.
        Vaporize whatever is in front of him. That should buy him few seconds to yank his amulet back, pull Grinder II and start making Julienne fries out of the next target.

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      6. “I’ll take a gunslinger over a samurai any day, the speed and physics just favor the gunslinger and really which is easier to learn and carry?”

        I will take the unpopular opinion and say that Grinder is far easier to learn than a sword or gun. You just need to swing or stab. Aiming is a serious challenge if you start from zero.

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      7. Actually within 21 feet a knife is more lethal than the sword or a gun. That being said I think he needs to make another grinder (grinder 2). Maybe make it a hybrid gun, sword, knife, multitool type deal. Of coarse that’s for a weapon that’s already a hybrid between a light saber from Star Wars a chain sword from 40K and a giant plasma torch.

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      8. That’s what I was thinking or maybe adding that magic he learned from the death whitch to make spells hold together. Just a few seconds of a spell holding together while traveling as fast is a bullet imagine that with a plasma ball. I wonder if he would be able to put other types of spells on the ball of plasma? Plasma still has adams so maybe he could fix it so they can hold spells of different types while themselves being held together and what would happen if you use a reverse version of that antigravity spell on the ball of plasma? Fun speculations!

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      9. Now a really crazy idea hitted me, does anyone watched those Gundam anime where they have this blasters that orbit around the mecha and are sended to attack diferent enemy vehicle at a time or the same vessel but from diferent angle, making it almost imposible to dodge??? Can Daniel caome up with something as complex as that??? How could he come even close to consider that???

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      10. He’s a programmer and gamer as well as a science-fiction fan and fantasy fan so yeah he could probably think of that idea making it work?

        Maybe preset them to a certain distances from center away from each other and fire in words at odd angles from each other so they don’t hit each other? Do that with multiple sizes of spheres.

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      11. If he is able to incorporated the targueting that the spellcasters use for long ranged attacks it would be a major imporvement.

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      12. Or watch closely next time Steelbinder uses HIS nasty flying metal toys.

        Learning how Steelbinder does it might give Daniel some clues how to do what he wants.

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      13. I’d agree that Grinder is easier to use than a gun, but we now know that Grinder won’t function in certain situations.

        Sucks to be Daniel when the Bad Monster has an AXE and Grinder has a headache.

        Daniel needs something massively ugly, massively physical and incredibly fast, because he will already be in deep trouble when he discovers Grinder is neutered and needs to activate Plan B.

        Of course, whatever qualifies for Plan B status will probably outclass Grinder and immediately be promoted to primary weapon.

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      14. 40K space marine/Jedi Knight wizard variant just saying he can do it.

        There is always some weirdos in units of the military that enjoy the fighting and the potential unmitigated slaughter and are really really good at it. He should ask his military commanders to start looking for those guys and singling them out for advanced super soldier experimentation (if you’re going to build a murder machine try to build the very best.)

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      15. Sure a knife is more lethal but a gun has the added benefit of pushing your attacker away from you. I will point you towards videos of real quick draw artists as an example who can draw, fire (and hit the target or multiple targets) and holster faster than the eye can see, with enhanced reflexes and preternatural targeting sense getting to within that 21 feet might be an issue. Sure a Swordsman with years of training and the same enhanced reflexes could cut/deflect a bullet.. A bullet, the next ones gonna hurt and if they can block everything then that’s what explosive rounds are for.
        I’m just saying that Danial doesn’t have the time to properly learn how to wield his 3 foot, sun hot, buzz saw rotating, flaming plasma sword (and I certainly don’t want to be anywhere near him on the front line) as he lashes it inexpertly back and forth, lopping off and cauterizing limbs, heads, torsos and small donkeys (of friend and foe). He’s as dangerous to himself as he is his friends.
        Danial doesn’t need more grinders, let grinder be a symbol of his power, a sound to be feared on the battlefield, Danial needs more big men with guns and armor between him and his intended target. if its in close and personal then his force field with the rotating blades would work better anyway.

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      16. You are rigth @Grady he doesn’t need it, but it sure as hell could help him in a desperate situation to know how to properly use his weapons, remember when he freaked out in the melee figth against one of the Gorilla because his sword could actually compite with grinder and he was totally outmatched in the swoordfigth?? He barely survived that encounter by pure luck like so many other, so considering to actually dedicate some time to acual swordfigth can’t be a demerit for him at this point. Unless he decides to stop jumping to the middle of the melee and begin to figth behind the frontside in a more secure place.

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      17. @Paps what he needs isn’t to transform himself into a swordsman “unless that ring trick works” but to make himself good enough so as to not be a danger to himself and allies on the battlefield.

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      18. Thats, what I wanted to express @DaShoota he needs to properly learn how to use his weapons, he really doesn’t have the time to be a Blademaster or Master gunslinger but he can guet to be reasonable good and apt not to be dangerous for his allies as well.

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      19. True on most of that except it takes just as long for a gunslinger to get as good as the trick shots you see on TV as it takes a swordsman to get to the same level as a swordsman. I’m also of the opinion that he needs super soldiers especially since he seems to think he has templates for them and has the ability to study some that already exists where he is nowadays.

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      20. “A bullet, the next ones gonna hurt and if they can block everything then that’s what explosive rounds are for.”

        That point is debateable. Daniel’s world has viable defenses. Daniel’s shield can stand up to his guns. The main attraction of firearms against bladed weapons is negated.

        A bullet as a kinetic killer is limited by the recoil the shooter can stand. If the enemy’s shield can withstand that, you will need to strengthen the shooter. If we, however, get into a battle of enchanted objects against shields, a gun is at a disadvantage. The bullet is thrown away and if you want to avoid the drawback of carrying your ammo it needs to be created within a few minutes.

        On your sword you can spend weeks of enchanting time. Plus, the quality and strength of enchantments depends on the size and material of the object that carries it. Again, a sword is larger and using special materials you cannot afford to fire and forget is possible.

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      21. Yes please, I’ll take a predators shoulder mounted plasma gun, two personal drones with flechette’s and anti-air mini missiles and the mini-gun that Arnold used in the Terminator. Oh and one set of Lion Voltron armor, just for the coven ladies you know…

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      22. HAHAHA I like that image. Girls assemble death whitch forms the right arm! Hearth whitch forms the left arm! Fairy forms the right leg! Cat girl forms the left leg and I will form the (swinging peace.) TOGETHER WE FORM MYTHTRON!(XXX) Girls were trying to fight here get your hands off me.

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      23. That’s the spirit!

        Hecate told Daniel to munchkin whatever he could for himself and Cerise. The consequences of that should continue to play out as he imagines new ways to take advantage of all that wild magic he grabbed on the way from his universe of origin to Varmland.

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      24. “”So, adding the autocannon option to Grinder II is the obvious next step”

        I think so. Grinder predates his discovery of how easy it is to conjure core material. It seems to operate on the air around it. It should have a setting to spew boiling iron like a firehose.

        “Grinder won’t function in certain situations”

        The same is true for his enchanted bullets.

        “if its in close and personal then his force field with the rotating blades would work better anyway”

        The inaccuracy of that statement was demonstrated in the battle against the dwarves.

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      25. In book one it is stated quite clearly grinder conjures plasma. If grinder sucked in air and converted it into plasma it would be impossible to hold onto. It would be like trying to hold the jet engine of an F 15 with one hand instead of holding something that has the force of a firehose.

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      26. If memory serves me correctly, Daniel summons/conjures the plasma, then uses Force magic to direct it. I’ll have to look for how he deals with action and reaction, but I don’t remember that being an issue.

        I suppose we could guess what type of gas he ionizes into plasma if we know the color of the blazing plasma.

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      27. And the usefulness of spewing LOTS of hot stuff in close combat was also demonstrated in battle against the dwarves.

        I like the spray of molten iron, Oliver. That is SO NASTY!

        Okay, I like it best from a comfortable distance….

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      28. “In book one it is stated quite clearly grinder conjures plasma”

        Where? I would love to understand that weapon. Plasma is mentioned a lot. Obvious at such temperatures. But plasma of what?

        “If grinder sucked in air and converted it into plasma it would be impossible to hold onto”

        Why? The sucking can be to all sides. Or it can operate on the air within its initial field.
        The only difficulty is when he uses the plasma jet effect. But there we have a problem in any case. Matter is propelled forward. You will get some recoil. It depends on the momentum of the matter you expel. If you aim to lower recoil, you want to have plasma with as low a density as possible. Hydrogen would be optimal, air would be almost as good. In fact the cool Grinder shows would match ionized nitrogen. If you replenish your air by sucking it from left and right (or up and down) at the same amount, all you feel is the exhaust. But the exhaust is inevitable.

        Yet for maximum energy output, plasma is not optimal. It is as hot as possible, but it isn’t as dense as possible. For that boiling metal is the best option. And yes, it is about an order of magnitude harder to hold than a water hose for the same volume of matter.

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      29. Look at the description of the plasma jet grinder projects 10 to 15 feet. Then imagine how much air would have to be sucked in and converted into plasma to achieve that. Correlate that with something as small as the handle of a sword even a very large sword like a Claymore. It would be like holding on to the suction end of a jet engine it would rip the flash from his bones even if it was pulling in from all directions. He state himself when grinder is turned on it sounds like a jet engine. He described how grinder works when he created it towards the end of book 1. I forget the exact chapter.

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      30. “If memory serves me correctly, Daniel summons/conjures the plasma”

        But what does that mean? Does he directly conjure some form of matter as plasma, does he conjure it and turn it into plasma by fire magic or does he just conjure temperature in the same sense you can banish weight?

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      31. Given that Daniel was conjuring plasma inside the first few days he arrived in Varmland, I’m guessing he summoned plasma with Earth, heated it with Fire and directed it with Force.

        Alternatively, he may have summoned hot plasma directly with Fire and directed it with Force.

        It seems to me too soon for him to be conjuring temperature the way he much later learned to banish weight/mass/gravity, although it seems reasonable for him to have summoned heat with Fire the same way he created “warmth” in cloaks among his earliest enchanted items..

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      32. I believe Danial uses his fire magic to create the plasma, there is no physical substance being converted, the noise is caused by the counter rotating mini saw blades and is a high pitched whine.
        Instead of Danial using his force magic to create the rotating saw blades on his shield how about he uses his earth magic and make physical rotating blades, that would stop the anti magic effect of the Dwarven spells.
        or hell just create 50lb spiked balls of iron and slam them down from above with his force magic, or 2 long spiked counter rotating rods in front of himself like the old laundry press… ugg that might get a little messy though.

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      33. Yes it might get messy. Maybe he should make one for the death witch? She probably would love 💗 it. It’s raining it’s poring all of you 🤯

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      34. Heh, he needs to put a laser light on the other end of grinder for the entertainment of all the cats he now has around…

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      35. That would be adorable and possibly a first step towards developing lethal laser technology enchantments. He could use force fields. He said it was difficult to reflect light with a force field difficult does not mean impossible. He can make a force field cylinder that is reflective on the inside.then put a clear force field shaft down the center that would lase the light that he could sommon on the inside of the cylinder.
        |
        |
        [|]

        It would probably be easier for him to make a lethal version with heat maybe mix a light summoning spell with his fire sorcery producing Infared. He has already shown the ability to mix his sorceries so producing a force field that can reflect heat or channel heat should not be a problem.

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      36. Given how Daniel spends entirely too much time (in HIS opinion) on the wrong end of lightning bolts at the end of FIMBULWINTER, he might be more inspired by the concept of a free electron laser.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-electron_laser

        I wonder if he can summon electrons?

        If he can convert the energy of E=MC^2 into mana, he ought to be able to generate and manipulate electrons.

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      37. Possibly but I’m not sure he can sommon the magnetic fields necessary to create one. Using force fields to manipulate visible spectrum photons or infrared photons might be the best bet for him. Ramping up that tek could also be a really good war Goddess coming of age present to.

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      38. “Look at the description of the plasma jet grinder projects 10 to 15 feet. Then imagine how much air would have to be sucked in and converted into plasma to achieve that.”

        A few dozens to hundred liters per large blast at most. You cannot take the volume of Grinder’s exhaust. Anything heated to such temperatures expands a lot. At Grinder’s minimum temperature at least twentyfold if we take air.

        “Correlate that with something as small as the handle of a sword even a very large sword like a Claymore.”

        Why would I do that? That would be a bad design. Force magic is active all along the blade. There is really no reason to suck in the working medium through the handle. The blade can do that just fine.

        “It would be like holding on to the suction end of a jet engine it would rip the flash from his bones even if it was pulling in from all directions. He state himself when grinder is turned on it sounds like a jet engine.”

        From the force saws embedded. It always sounds like that, whether the blast effect is used or not. It has no relation to sucking in the working medium.

        “He described how grinder works when he created it towards the end of book 1. I forget the exact chapter.”

        Yes. He describes what Grinder does, but not how.

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      39. Then Daniel describes Grinder again in the first chapter of BLACK COVEN — what it does, not how it happens.

        Sigh.

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  6. I don’t think yall realised, but when Bast comes back and matures into a one year and a day old divine adult… She will want “lovin” from her “daddy”. He already promised her all the lovin she wants when she comes back. He gave her some to tide her over.

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    1. I wasn’t bothered by that when she was posesing her future mother, but in the actual body of her daugther?? I don’t think Daniel sensitivities can deal with that, at least not in a mere year of living there.

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      1. Hmm…I have to agree with you on the timing, Paps. Daniel’s brain will have a lot of stretching to do….

        On the other hand, it should quickly become apparent as She grows (fast) to maturity that Bast will be augmenting and evolving Her new body to the point where it can become divine again. She’ll be a demigoddess for quite a while, just like Mara, but maybe not as many actual years.

        Sneaky cat trick, that speedy development!

        Daniel will have maybe a (very) few years to wrap his mind around the fact that his little girl has morphed to fully become Bast again.

        He’s going to have to suck it up and fulfill his promises, though.

        Bast will be looking for a proven champion to sire Her first litter of demigod kittens.

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      2. In that case if I was Daniel I would be speeding up the werecats male transformations to avoid uncomfortable situations, it will mostly depends on the teachings she recieves as a human child.

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      3. Sure thing, Paps, except…where will Daniel find the “sample” werecat male?

        His anime “cat-girl” transformation magic only produces females.

        I’m predicting we will eventually read the sentence: “I should have absorbed some cat-boy transformation, too!” from Daniel.

        Too late now. He’ll have to figure it out.

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      4. Well I know that Gods have no issue with incest, but I really hope that Mr. Brown stay well away from it. And I trust that Daniel will be able to figure something out if he actually spend time studying, problaly the secret lies in the wolfen, if he can crack that he migth be closer to it.

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      5. @Paps I doubt studying the wolfen will help the matter any. Wolves tend to be mildly incestuous themselves you have to remember every member of a pack of wolves is related by blood. A mother, father, uncle, aunt, brother, sister, daughter or cousin. That bit about wolves mating for life is a myth wolves breed the strongest they don’t mate for life. When an alpha wolf whether it’s male or female is challenged and taken out by a new wolf of the pack that is stronger family relation doesn’t matter. Also it seems like you haven’t read any of the authors other works he doesn’t seem to shy away from such touchy topic’s.

        Besides agitating and stirring people up can also get more readers.

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      6. @Dashoota, I mentioned the Wolfen more in the aspect of helping his flesh magic shapeshift other were creatures, if he manages to understand how they went from normal humans to wolfen, what and how things changed. I sincerely haven’t readed the other works of the author, Doujinshis (or fan fiction) aren’t my cup of tea, and I am not interested in Alice Long for the time been.

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      7. Wll, Daniel has been rather clear that there is no single, discrete “secret” to the way his Flesh transformation works. He needs a template derived from a living example, and gender matters, as in “same gender in, same gender out.”

        So, to make a were-cat male, Daniel needs a viable sample from a living were-cat male, cooperative…or not.

        Take heart. If Bast teases Daniel into an expedition to Egypt he might encounter an androsphinx.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphinx

        That could be a step in the right direction. The kittens would certainly be interesting.

        Not having a lot of luck finding male Egyptian gods with cat/lion heads. Sekhmet is female and so is Tefnut.

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      8. There are a lot of creatures in mythology that are exclusively female. Maybe the author will go the route that every offspring they have that is female is just like them same species as them but if they have a male the male is the same species as whatever the father is?

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      9. He can’t yet, all attempt have resulted in female werecat, but he is still dibling in his flesh magic, maybe there is room for it in the future.

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      10. @Colin i’m not sure that coven bond would exclude her she’s already a part of the family and that coven bond doesn’t exclude members of the family, servants and group. Being not just a goddess of war and battle but also sensuality, fertility and sex her powers might have no impediment in affecting him. I also think at that point the ferry might have the biggest hangups about it.

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    2. Nah, I took that to mean the love of a father for his daughter. Any… hinting that it might mean something else was pretty much Bast teasing him. I predict he’ll be very much troubled by his daughters effect on other males and her…. unconcerned willingness to try out… new things while having her father running around with a pitchfork hunting young males he already knows about.

      On the other hand, after the first two or three young hotblooded males he turns into new werecats his daughter will likely have to work much harder to find new playmates. 😉 Perhaps she’ll be distracted by those new werecat girls… and the novelty they must present.

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      1. Well you don’t read in between the lines. Reread the book again. Bast wants to scream her “daddy’s” name while clawing his back.
        Godhood is a pretty messed up situation. You know Hera was Zeus’s sister right? Nothing wrong with some “cousin lovin”.

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      2. @Kervyn: Yeah, and there’s a reason we have Christianity all around us nowadays, where sex itself before official marriage gets us a free ticket into hell and contraception, married or not, is a sin all by itself if one can believe the pope.

        So, while society doesn’t exactly follow those rules that much, the mess that was business as usual not only in the stories of pantheons, be it norse, greek or roman but in regular human society as well won’t be accepted by Daniel at all. And outside of the book, our dearly loved writer will want to sell his book and it certainly isn’t supposed to be a story centered sexual deviation. So, no, if we get any books in which Bast as Daniels daughter is grown up, her advances on her father will either never really happen or Daniel cuts of that nonsense before it can become a topic.

        We live in a society in which a father can’t take his 6 year old daughter to the park and follow her around with a camera without any old lady getting it into her head that he has indescent intentions and she should perhaps call the police to arrest the stalker of that poor little girl.

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      3. @Martin. You think Mr Brown gives a shit about current “sensibilities”? Do you see him pandering to any sjw shit in his books? Does this book take place in a park where an old woman can call the police or in an alternate world where shit is completely different?

        You might not want to agree with incest, or it makes you uncomfortable. But if we believe your beloved pope’s religion. Mankind is an incestuous species. Our first foray into incest (according to Mr Pope’s religion) was Adam and Eve. Then Noah and his merry Harem after all humanity was flooded out.

        Daniel made a promise to “fuck” Bast all she wants when she comes back. He won’t jump at it right away, he will have reservations against doing it. But eventually he will give in, just like he gave in to the other females around him. Once the female isn’t in a relationship or married, and his coven approves, he will gl ahead. I’m sure after Daniel rejects Bast a few times, she (bast) will run to Tina (her mother) and complain that her father doesn’t love her. I’m sure Tina and Cerise will have a long talk with Daniel and call him stupid because of his hangups.

        I don’t understand how you are trying to appeal to the Pope and Christianity to escape Daniel committing incest with his magical divine goddess daughter, when this book is filled with depravity already. You think the pope’s religion likes what Cerise and Avilla do to other girls? What about what Daniel does to all those females? Can’t forget Daniel participated in the ritual of summoning a pagan God. BLASPHEMOUS!!!

        Daniel is not Christian, Martin. Incest was pretty widespread a just a few decades ago, much less the thousands of years Daniel traveled to the past. It’s still okay to marry your cousin in Japan.
        Do you know why incest is looked down on so? It’s not the act, it’s that incestuous babies have a lot of health defects.

        To address your book sales. If a sparkly 400+ year old pedophile vampire can stalk a teenage girl for years until she has sex with him, and sells millions of copies and a movie deal. Then a father can fuck his adult literal goddess daughter. If you read more you would see this is pretty tame compared to some books that sells hundreds of thousands of copies, and is translated into other languages.

        If he(Daniel) thinks on it too much he might not like it, but what daughter can be fertile and have a luscious adult body one year after her birth? She isn’t human. So i don’t think your modern human sensibilities apply.

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      4. One question that still needs to be answered. Since she was actually there during that coven bond creation both physically and mentally is Bast already a part of the coven? Does she share her mothers part of the bond? Daniel might be compelled not just permitted to consummate his relationship with her. Her being a part of that coven bond would remove any protection it would offer from her advances and actually compel him to give into them.

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      5. I think that her part on the formation of the Coven was more in a sponsor capacity that participant, if it was so then even Hecate and Idun would be part of the coven.

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      6. Not necessarily think about it Tina was actually pregnant with her when the coven was made so she was physically there not just appearing as some magical version of a hologram. Physically and mentally present inside one of the people casting the bond in fact wasn’t it her power Tina was using to do it with?

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      7. Bast gifted Tina with magical affinities and abilities during and after her conception.

        One must assume that Daniel (DADDY!) also provided some magical gifts, with his contribution.

        Oh, my…had not previously even considered THAT…if the author so desires, Bast might become even more powerful than she ever was in the ancient past. Hmm…how much modern physics, chemistry, biology, engineering, etc. can Daniel teach his kids? Which goddesses will make the time to spy on those lessons? They may all have a LOT of time to find out.

        As for the magic Tina and everyone else used in the ritual, it was partly theirs and partly what Daniel provided to all of them from the power stone he linked to each of them.

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      8. That is a very good question Colin Colin just how fast can a growing goddess learn? How fast will any of the kittens from the cat girls learn and how fast will they all grow? What about the other children of the other girls Avilla was practically born full-grown how fast with her children grow. Not even thinking about the nearly ageless demon dragon hybrid girl or the nearly ageless ferry. If he wants to teach his kids anything he’s going to have to see whether or not Avilla can come up with some memory enhancing recipes so he can remember most of the stuff he’s learned.

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      9. Or he can throw to them the principle behind the theorys and leave them to take their own understanding of it, and reaching for them on its own. Afterall he must understand the result of a lot of things not totally how they come to be.

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      10. Truth, Daniel will be hugely challenged passing his knowledge on to his kids as quickly as he WANTS.

        On the other hand, all he has to do is keep himself and them alive and he will continue to have LOTS of time to pass on what they NEED.

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      11. Tina was present, but the Coven was been formed for an specific number of individuals, and with a certain criterias, Bast as a feto wasn’t considered into the criteria to be part of the Coven neither was she considerd into the numbers. Hecate even mentioned the posibility to leave a vancancy, she didn’t automaticly filled it as soon as it was created.

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      12. Bast Herself blessed the coven and its bonding ritual, but did not directly participate in it and did not speak the words of the ritual. “Future Bast” in Tina’s womb was present, but did not speak the words of the ritual.

        Best answer to whether she was intended to be a member of the coven is — not by those five who actually created the coven and executed the ritual.

        Best answer to whether she was somehow “included” in the ritual anyhow — we cannot know.

        The author could play it fast and loose if he wants that, or he could enforce tight rules and exclude her from the coven.

        My take?

        It’s going to get kind of strange worshipping a fellow member of the same coven.

        Have no doubt that Tina will worship Bast. She will probably recruit others to worship Bast. Also, look for Tina to be caught somehow in a situation where she needs to use all those warlike blessings from Bast.

        Daniel taught some Frost Giants to fear the sky, and hopes/expects that idea to spread.

        Tina might well teach some monsters to fear the night…. .

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      13. Colin a lot of good points in that. I think the author might play fast and loose just to mess with the audience. I am also of the opinion that when Tina gets a taste of blood she’ll probably go full on tiger and start competing with the death whitch to see who gets to go with Daniel on his adventures. After all she stated herself that she’s not some tame cat and her full transformation looks more weretiger than house cat.

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      14. Weretiger or maybe were jaguar? Maybe. As for wanting to go out “hunting” with Daniel, I really doubt it. Tina is going to be so very busy raising baby Bast, then helping raise other babies of the coven, I just don’t see her out “spilling oceans of blood together” with Daniel.

        On the other hand, I can SO imagine the scene when a would-be assassin makes the final, fatal mistake of his/her/its existence and threatens one of the children where Tina can see it happening.

        Oceans of blood, indeed!

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  7. There has been a lot of thought of Empires that Daniel can bring. I thought I would start a thread just about those options. Here are the possibilities I see or read on the site. I apologize for the gross simplification of people’s ideas.

    1) Daniel creates an empire by giving lots of people powerful magical tools, while maintaining control/secrecy over the process of creating the most critical of these tools (mana generation, industrial magic item creation, etc). He basically equips armies, establishes fortified cities and expands his area under his protection. This empire is basically a alliance of existing political entities, tied together in part by their reliance on Daniel’s weapons to protect themselves against the dangers of Ragnarok. Daniel has great political power because he controls the weapons, but does not directly rule most of the alliance. This might evolve into some central government over time or might not, depending on what is needed for the war (s).

    2) Daniel creates a powerful empire under his firm control. As per #1, but Daniel wants political control. He uses his advanced magical arsenal to buy, bribe, threaten or conquer his neighbors to build his empire. In this case, he is consolidating separate political entities into his empire and using his knowledge of modern society to organize the empire to be highly efficient, highly effective, very loyal and an entity that can create a lot of armies to help him expand/protect his people.

    3) Daniel sparks a magical industrial revolution whose ideas fairly quickly spread under the pressure of the Ragnarok. Daniel makes some effort to protect his greatest secrets, but a lot of his methods proliferate quickly. Society is transformed and the benefits of magic are made available to large segments of the population. Beings of considerable magical power AND skill are still beings to be respected, but the gap between them and the more ordinary mortal powers is much less. In this world, Daniel is the visionary, the prophet and the pathfinder. But over time he will become just one of many who advance magical knowledge and industry. Think a kinder version of the railroad robber baron approach where those first magical industrialists accumulate great power by being first and implementing as fast as possible. The magical industrial revolution expands faster still and the relative power of any one “baron” (or god) vis-a-vis the rest of the world steadily drops.

    4) Daniel becomes a god and the head of his own pantheon of gods. As such he basically takes the place of the Aesir as the protectors of a region (or eventually the world). He has great influence over the kingdoms of men, elves (and others) in his domain through his priests/close follower, but does not try to administer these kingdoms or otherwise engage in day to day management. Basically – a more benevolent version of how the Aesir operate. In this case, he recruits primarily gods, beings of great power or loyal minions who can become beings of great power with Daniel’s help.

    5) Daniel does not seek to control (or protect) any large block of territory. Instead he focuses on protecting his keep/people (first) and the adjacent city (2nd). He might occasionally help others, but it is not his focus. Daniel has a big impact on the region because he keeps doing the unexpected and throwing off the plans for the gods and/or destroying their forces out of self defense. When Ragnarok ends, Daniel is instrumental in killing or binding the great beasts (along with others he does not control). When that is done, Daniel returns to his keep and starts to enjoy his retirement. The rest of the world can take care of itself.

    Did I miss a major scenario people think might be possible. I know we all have our favorites (mine is some mixture of #3 and #5).

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    1. Aren’t you forgetting something? Like… asking Daniel? I don’t think he would want to be such a leader. He’d rather live in his basement puttering around with magical artefacts.

      You also kind of forgot.. Fimbulwinter. There won’t be any neighbours left to conquer. Unless you mean the middle kingdom in asia or the african nations bordering the medditeranean sea. Makes me wonder, is there some kind of islamic religion? The christian one obviously failed in its infancy and islam is kind of an offspring of that. The biggest pantheon in that direction that I know of would be the egyptian one. Were there any other .. well… Babylon had to have a pantheon. So has Persia. Without the islamic faith, those should still be around. So long as they didn’t get conquered and reformed by anyone.

      So, no Empire with Daniel as a leader. Or a pantheon that he’ll end up leading. Way too much work. And since he has to fight other gods already, declaring himself leader of a new pantheon will only get him more gods after his skin. And if he actually ends up a god, that’ll paint a target on his followers. I’d rather have old enemies trying to kill me than have a bunch of new enemies that want to torture me for eternity. *shudder*

      Even just the industrial magical revolution will fail… you most certainly need a minimum level of society to support that. With the start of fimbulwinter, pretty much all society will die off. They don’t have the nifty abilities Daniel has to create indoor greenspace. And even Daniel needed help from nonhuman races to make that work.

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      1. It seems to me that in that world monotheisms is a ridiculous idea. There are multiple gods. You can see them. In theory touch them, if you risk being smitten. In rare cases you can even have sex with them. I wonder what happened to Zoroasterism under such circumstances.

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      2. There is Hecate. She needs a territory to establish her new cult in.
        If she calls Cerise to arms, do you think Daniel will stay at home? Or Avilla would let him get away with pledging less than all his resources?

        He made his bed when he joined the coven. Now he will have to keep sleeping in it.

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      3. @Martin Islam though it is currently linked to Christianity and Judaism it actually has its roots in the religions and cultures of the nomadic Bedouin tribes around the Iraq area so probably Babylonian. I got into studying the histories of religions when I was in India there is an entire society and subculture dedicated to the study of the history of religions. However I don’t know much about the Bedouins earlier beliefs not many people do a nomadic, tribalistic, minimalistic people don’t leave much in the way of historical evidence.

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      4. Martin in several ancient religions it was common to have a central pantheon and several satellite pantheons the Greek and Roman religions tended to follow this model. I think Daniel will eventually achieve Godhood I also think he would take the rest of his coven with him. However I think it will be a minor Godhood and it will effectively form into a satellite pantheon. Unless they all do some weird merging with the gods that already exist in the pantheon Hackett is forming.

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      5. Not all of these “empire” options involve Daniel ruling. I tried to cover the scenarios where Daniel gains power by trying to survive Ragnarok. Some scenarios involve Daniel engaging in a lot of control. The argument made by others is that the necessity of survival will demand this outcome. Other scenarios involve lesser degrees of control or very minimal control.

        I also think all these scenarios presume that the worst “massive death of humanity” scenarios of Ragnarok are avoided by Daniel’s action (and presumably the action of the Aesir as well). If everybody dies, that pretty much means no future under the scenarios Hecate outlined.

        However, we can add another scenario: “Daniel and his forces are able to survive the Fimbulwinter and few others can make this claim. Simply by surviving Daniel has a huge voice in how the North develops post Fimbulwinter. Also, the power Daniel accumulated in order to survive means he is a one of the greater powers among all that survive.

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      6. ” I tried to cover the scenarios where Daniel gains power by trying to survive Ragnarok. Some scenarios involve Daniel engaging in a lot of control. The argument made by others is that the necessity of survival will demand this outcome.”

        I still cannot see how Daniel would save so many people without indoor agriculture. That requires power stones. Power stones must be secured. That requires a guard force. That requires control.

        Of course he could put Cerise in charge and do an audience a month and work on his magitech the rest of the time. The coven must rule, not Daniel himself.

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      7. I wonder if putting Nethwillin up front would be better, when Daniel needs/wants to go hide/work in his lab?

        All the “powers that be” in Kozalin are much more likely to respect the leader of Clan Nethwillin, who is also Daniel’s new castellan, so that actually works rather well.

        It seems to me he still needs to downplay the coven, and he does not want to reveal the Groves as such, yet, although Tova has to know that Pelagia would not be on Black Island all by herself. That’s going to be fun to read some day. Tova clearly recognized Pelagia’s name when Daniel dropped it. What will Tova think when she sees and understands what Daniel has done with the Groves?

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      8. Agree with you Oliver. The Fimbulwinter will kill almost everyone in the north. Only two paths to avoid this outcome that I see.

        1) as you say, Daniel can create vast new sources of food via his industrial magic combined with nature magic like that of the druids.

        2) the Fimbulwinter ends within the next year or so (or less). This is a real possibility if the Aesir win their war quickly or most of the key participants fighting are killed by the fighting. Either way, it will take an enormous amount of power to end the Fimbulwinter.

        Given the book has discussed several times what it would take to end the fimbulwinter early, I am guessing that is the more likely direction.

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      9. “I wonder if putting Nethwillin up front would be better, when Daniel needs/wants to go hide/work in his lab?”

        If we can go by Cerise reacting to elves, then we will have to assume that elves have a reputation for not being trustworthy. And that is a serious problem. Daniel is feared. That is good. But he also so far has delivered on all promises.

        “All the “powers that be” in Kozalin are much more likely to respect the leader of Clan Nethwillin, who is also Daniel’s new castellan, so that actually works rather well.”

        They will know they are talking to a deputy.

        “It seems to me he still needs to downplay the coven, and he does not want to reveal the Groves as such, yet, although Tova has to know that Pelagia would not be on Black Island all by herself. That’s going to be fun to read some day. Tova clearly recognized Pelagia’s name when Daniel dropped it. What will Tova think when she sees and understands what Daniel has done with the Groves?”

        She likely already knows. If Brand can figure it out, so can the Conclave.

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      10. Sucks to be Daniel, then.

        There’s no way “the coven” can publicly run things for him while he’s off in the lab, especially not with the situations Cerise has with any Asgardian Churchmen, Avilla’s problem with the Prince, Elin’s problems with the Conclave and Tina’s many incredibly obvious…assets. Kozalin’s male population is probably even more patronizing than the refugee men whom Daniel observed owning the conversation in his first quick built underground shelter.

        If Nethwillin is suspect because they are (dark) elves, Pelagia would have even worse problems than Cerise anywhere near an Asgardian Churchman, and the satyr is…well…a satyr, who does that leave to publicly represent Black Island when Daniel is trying to get useful work done in his lab?

        He’s going to be interrupted, a LOT, until he can find a suitable public “face” to run interference for him with Kozalin’s elites.

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      11. Well he has a Diplomatic envoy just for that rigth??? I am sure he can guet away with it if he states that he has the magical beign that represents him in some sort of magical bounding that allows him to completely control it.

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      12. Daniel’s diplomatic envoy is Pelagia. She can and probably will appear at the Sealy Court. She could invite Tova to meetings on Black Island intended to influence the Conclave. Pelagia probably would not have much direct influence with Steelbinder, although, if she visits the Conclave he might draw important conclusions from the mere fact she is willing and able to risk herself at such a distance from her Grove. Since Steelbinder now has personal experience with Daniel’s lesser power stone and lesser amulets, he will recognize the potential for Pelagia and her grove to have that level of magical support. However, she is still a woman. Maybe Steelbinder would respect her age, experience and sheer power. Maybe.

        I’m not sure I’d trust the Prince to avoid insulting Pelagia without even opening his mouth.

        Her diplomatic envoy job is more intelligence gathering than representing Daniel at important meetings and other events.

        I’m still not seeing who could take Daniel’s place in public when he is not available to appear.

        Maybe Captain Rain, in certain limited circumstances.

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      13. Not to mention that she can seduce and charm almost anyone in the city, people tend to be loose lipped in the bedroom, she will have quite the influence in the city.

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      14. Paps, don’t forget the Asgard Church in Kozalin. Pelagia does NOT want to be captured by them, and she knows it. They are rebuilding after losing so much when Hel’s undead army smashed through the Religious District and Mara carved her way into the heart of the main church.

        I bet those pissed off survivors of Odin’s faithful would LOVE to host a barbecue, with Pelagia as guest of honor.

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      15. I won’t disregard that because people can be trully stupid at times, but do they really want to risk it??? I mean Daniel has proved himself influencial enough in the city and if even Demigods are ignoring his supernatural connections why would mere priest risk it like that?? Unless obviously they recieve some divine message to guet the approval, but don’t think anyone in Odin pantheon want to screw up with Daniel that mutch!!!!!

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      16. Paps, it is probably safe to say Daniel has only begun to come to the attention of Asgard’s pantheon.

        Brand seems to believe Daniel can survive and shelter the beginning of a new human population for poor, shattered and frozen Europe.

        Odin may or may not agree with that strategy if Daniel messes up badly enough in the future.

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      17. “the Fimbulwinter ends within the next year or so (or less).”

        It may already be too late. You also need to defeat giants and goblins. You need farmers. A number of them are dead. Their draft animals are dead. The equipment has been destroyed. Do they have seed grain?

        Will Gaia just sit back and lick her wounds or send her doomed troops on a suicide charge?

        Even if the fimbulwinter ends now, the snow is already on the ground. It seems to have been exceptionally heavy, so they will have to wait for spring floods to end before moving out and so on.

        In short, the next growth season may have to be written off and how many people are already dead? 50%? 75%?

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      18. And then there’s the “what if Danial is correct and Fimbulwinter lasts 30 YEARS” question?

        That could be a LOT of Daniel Black series books for us to read!

        But not very many humans left in Europe, and maybe most other places as well.

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      19. There are still millions of humans alive in the north. There are probably a hundred thousand just in Daniel’s city. I agree a lot of people have died and a lot more will die before this is done. But there is a huge difference between a few thousand survivors and a few hundred thousand survivors. If a few hundred thousand survive, civilization in the north will recover fairly quickly, especially if those survivors are concentrated around cities with strong political organization/structure.

        Also remember a few factoids
        1) The north has been preparing for fimbulwinter for centuries. The winter also hit “in winter”, so the crops are already in. Between these two, that pretty much means that (at this point), there is not going to be mass starvation for at least six months, maybe a year or more. That is why I originally said that the fimbulwinter has to end in a year. Go much beyond a year and mass starvation has to be a concern.

        2) This world has gods and magic. I have no doubt that a bunch of gods and beings powerful enough to end the fimbulwinter are powerful enough to work weather magic, animal fertility magic, and crop magic such that food production will rebound swiftly once the fimbulwinter is banished. Probably population would boom as well due to similar fertility blessings.

        3) Of course, the above assumes that a bunch of great beasts are not killing everybody in sight.

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      20. I think everybody keeps overlooking the obvious DB is basically starting out from a magical version of trans-human creation capability. What happens when he populates the north with wolfen, cat girls, satyrs, dryads, super soldiers and other creatures? The great beast might find easier less combative pre-elsewhere. Especially if one or two of them make an attempt and wind up getting taken out. If he does that after Ragnarok the real threat will be other nations seeing him as a threat or his peoples as a threat.

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      21. DaShoota, you are probably right about Daniel trying to expand the populations of his allies, and there are at least a few places in the second and third books where he explicitly starts to think about increasing the Wolfen clan, adding more Catgirls and giving Nethwillin the ability to have more Dark Elf children. Odds are the Groves will also prosper as they have not for centuries.

        However, all of that will require time, generational time. We probably won’t see it beginning until about Book Seven.

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      22. Colin exactly but I don’t think it’s going to take as long as a decade. I wonder if the author will make a set of creepy stories taking place from the perspective of one of the captains coming in to a northern city and seeing it change from one year to the next.

        Captain X log begins: today we came in to the cities harbor it was in a sad state there’s still lots of wealth to be had here for those you can brave the trip. The people are thin and hungry they’ve got desperation in their eyes. Despite the harsh conditions the cities population has grown there are people everywhere all of them starving. Captain X log ends.

        Captain X new log entry: while it’s true the city is in a sorry state there are rumors of a dark wizard working miracles. He seems to be extremely wealthy today we’re going to have business with him and I’ll see just how wealthy he is from myself. His Fortress is gigantic The people here seem not so desperate that their eyes have a hardness like they’re preparing for a battle and willing to kill. Captain X log ends.

        Captain X new log entry: The business with the dark wizard went well he is very generous one would say too generous. We were settling in for the night on the ship when there were strange noises to be heard in the forest beyond the city. The noises were unsettling they sounded like howling from wolves but strangely they almost sounded like words like they were communicating. The crew is deeply disturbed I think with my next trip some of them will not be coming. Captain X log ends.

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      23. DaShoota, I agree it won’t be a decade until we begin to see some of the population expansion start. If the author decides to reveal some of that in THRALL it would be fun to see.

        Captain X will be able to sell adventure story copies of his log for that whole trip to and from Kozalin.

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      24. There WERE a hundred thousand people in Kozalin when Daniel arrived. They have lost a few TENS of thousands in the weeks since that day.

        Don’t forget Lanrest was a terrible slaughter, with somewhere between five and ten thousand humans wiped out in two or three DAYS.

        Every time Daniel has an opportunity to really check out the countryside we are presented with pitiful reminders of all the thousands and thousands of deaths there have been in only the first month or two of Fimbulwinter and we are also shown a snowy, abandoned waste for miles and miles around Kozalin.

        I’m NOT expecting there will be millions of Varmlanders alive at the end of the first year of Fimbulwinter. I expect almost all the small “strongholds” will be smashed long before the first year is done. When that is completed, the only places there will be significant surviving populations will be the big cities like Kozalin. When one of those is broken it will be a huge loss to the remaining survivor cities, because Loki’s army will redeploy whatever surviving force of His remains after looting and razing that city.

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      25. If Lanrest and Kozalin are any example, the North is almost totally unprepared for Fimbulwinter, much less Ragnarok. Lanrest is a joke. Kozalin had virtually no available shelter space for refugees and has little food for them. There are no protected growing areas that would feed Kozalin the second, third and succeeding years of FIMBULWINTER. If that is an example of the North’s preparation, the North is dead. Only Black Island will survive.

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      26. Unless the author reveals a significant plot change in THRALL, there is not much chance Fimbulwinter will stop. Even if some miracle happens, and Fimbulwinter is cut short, then there is the Ice Age caused by Fimbulwinter. There will be many places in Europe, especially northern Europe, where the seasons may change but the snow will not melt and the ice will accumulate and the permafrost will only become more “perma” and more deep.

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      27. Actually after the first year and a half the death toll should start dropping. This will be because the ones left at that point will be true survivors that will do what it takes to survive. They won’t go easy.

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      28. Some time about early “spring” the year AFTER Fimbulwinter begins, secondary effects will commence.

        There’s a pattern to food storage, planting and harvesting in an agrarian society like Varmland.

        The bulk, long storage foods like grain, dried beans, rice and such need to be replenished, but that won’t happen with snow and ice on the ground everywhere and farmers rotting dead under that snow and ice, or starving in places like Kozalin.

        The fresh new crops like spring onions, potatoes, lettuce, radishes, etc., also won’t happen.

        The real crisis begins when the entire population realizes that snow and ice does not go away in spring.

        The Prince, the Conclave, some of the aristocrats and most of the merchant class “know” this to varying degrees, but the refugees LIVE this pattern. If they don’t see something like a “normal” spring they will panic and/or collapse.

        If Kozalin is going to continue to be inhabited, Daniel will have to build lots more of something like his indoor farms and the refugees will have to work there to see food growing.

        Kozalin will likely have space for that to happen, since so many districts have been wrecked by rampaging enemy armies.

        The question remains, will the Prince see the necessity and commission Daniel to create more “big box” buildings stuffed with growing space, lighting, heat and water?

        Of course, then there’s the question of whether Brand will allow Daniel to do that.

        It occurs to me that Brand is the first “god” likely to understand that Daniel killed Gaia’s army, which means Asgard will probably be informed at some point, which means Loki’s spies will discover it and Loki MIGHT mention it to Gaia, who will then have some interesting questions for Mara.

        Tick-tock.

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      29. At the end of book 3 the prince is dead and the demigod went home. They don’t have a say in what happens in the city. Yes he needs to build more indoor farming complexes. But humans are resourceful a few of them probably has already added long pig to the menu. In a year and a half those that are left will start becoming expert monster hunters. Trolls regenerate how many slabs of steak can be cut off of a troll in somebody’s basement before it stops regenerating? How many people can an elephant sized wolf feed? How many dead goblins can a man carry? How many of them will be trying to go wailing for sea serpents? How long before they invent cross country skiing or snowshoes? They will find a way no matter what it takes. (Meets back on the menu boys.) One of my favorite movie quotes.

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      30. I’m not sure the Prince is dead–did I miss something obvious at the end of EXTERMINATION?

        Just because the raid went to Hel doesn’t mean the Prince died–he might have escaped while Brand attracted all that attention from Gaia’s children..

        Brand was given an escape route from Gaia’s dungeon by Daniel, so the odds are decent that Kozalin has not seen the last of that demigod.

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      31. The thing is the author has rewritten those chapters several times. Nobody knows what he will actually go with in the book. But the prince being dead has stayed in all the rewritten chapters.

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      32. “I am sure he can guet away with it if he states that he has the magical beign that represents him in some sort of magical bounding that allows him to completely control it”

        If he wants her to talk to human beings only, that will do. It would ruin his reputation among other dryads and other magical beings though.

        If he wants to create the impression of sending somebody with a magical link, why not really send somebody with a link? Cerise could summon him a demon to enslave and link to. Or he could buy one. Or he could take one of the ghosts from the undead army floating around Kozalin.

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      33. Well it can help him expand his intimidation factor, by the power levels that Pelagia say they migth be able to achieve with the stones, having the impression of someone so powerfull been bounded to you will create quite the expectactions of your strengh and techniques.

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      34. Of course, sending a super-powered Pelagia to represent Black Island to the Conclave might be a crass insult to the male-dominated Conclave.

        It will be fun to see what the author chooses to do with that, because it seems very likely that Pelagia will indeed be super-powered Real Soon Now.

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      35. Or Pelagia can exercise her diplomatic skills to find and recruit a suitable male mage or aristocrat to represent Black Island wherever she and Daniel choose not to go.

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      36. I’m not sure the Norse church or the conclave will have a problem with Pelagia, they have issues with witches because of religious differences but don’t seem to have issues with Elves or Dwarves. They may just see her as a Fay power and having Danial’s affiliation also gives her a strong political foundation. The conclave isn’t going to want to piss off their new power source, especially in the middle of a war.

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      37. The issues with Pelagia representing Black Island to the Conclave when Daniel is not available would be more a consequence of her being female rather than her being a Greek forest spirit. The Conclave seems to me to be a very patriarchal organization that tolerates the occasionally useful assistance of its sorceresses. Hence, just about any male representative of Black Island would be more respected by the Conclave, regardless of Pelagia being more effective, skilled, experienced, powerful, etc.

        The Asgard Church would try to destroy Pelagia because she is a rather powerful anchor for at least one of the Olympian gods/goddesses.

        Yes, Daniel is dancing on the razor’s edge, and Black Island is on his back.

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      38. “Brand was given an escape route from Gaia’s dungeon by Daniel, so the odds are decent that Kozalin has not seen the last of that demigod.”

        That I doubt. Not if Odin or Vali notice the sudden stop of reinforcements from Skogheim. A demigod perishing on a heroic mission is much better for propaganda.

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    2. One scenario would be making working for him better than the alternatives.
      1. He is forced into governing the city near his fortress using his knowledge of advanced society he organizes them with the methods he is most familiar with.
      2. In their desperation due to the harsh times that they are living in and the environmental disaster taking place other large cities in Europe and Russia where the population is consolidating itself for protection and survival start calling on him to figure out what they need to do to join.
      3. His wives, elves, groves and whoever else has joined his group since then start extending his organizational tactics.
      4. The Empire grows around him organically.
      5. He wind up sitting in a large golden chair with a fancy hat also made of gold wondering how he got there.

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      1. Hi, DaShoota.

        When I read this, “In their desperation due to the harsh times that they are living in and the environmental disaster taking place other large cities in Europe and Russia where the population is consolidating itself for protection and survival start calling on him to figure out what they need to do to join.” …my first reaction was, “No, they will all send spies to try to figure out HOW that upstart spellslinger does what he does.” Followed by, “Then, they will try to buy his secrets, or Daniel himself.”

        Imagine how many powerful beings would LOVE to BE Daniel the Black, or to OWN him.

        Of course, Fimbulwinter and the hordes of monsters and the Andregi armies will keep the numbers of surviving spies and slavers low, but their quality will be very, very high….

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      2. Colin don’t forget all of the magic he’s putting on his fortress much of it is designed to sniff out or driveway spies. And his death which is basically a demonic dragon hybrid ninja so a lot of that would be specialized against spies. Not saying they wouldn’t send them or that some of them wouldn’t get through just that it would be extremely hard. Not to mention he’s got an entire clan of pointy eared ninjas protecting himself and his secrets.

        At this point he still needs golden armor to make the God Emperor motif official.

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      3. “Not saying they wouldn’t send them or that some of them wouldn’t get through just that it would be extremely hard”

        Doesn’t Daniel warrant the best spies you can get? Or doing it the hard way by taking hostages?

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      4. Maybe we’ll find out in THRALL. It sure seems like Daniel has been around Kozalin long enough now that his name and the value of his magic is information shared among a small but growing circle of potentially interested beings.

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      5. It seems longer to us because of the cruel and unusual waiting the author put us through but it’s only been about three months for Daniel that’s not very long for a medieval society. Even if they do have magic mirror communication.

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      6. True for the “modern medieval society” of Kozalin and environs, but what about the gods and goddesses?

        How fast does that sort of information spread among Them?

        Obviously, Gaia is oblivious when Daniel the Dark Elf knelt right in front of Her.

        I bet Loki would have recognized him instantly.

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      7. Yeah I’d be pretty sure that Loki would spot him instantly too. But as for the other Gods I get the impression they keep secrets from each other. I think the fastest route of his existence getting out would be by the grain ships coming into the city. I’m also pretty sure that the king was told by the prince.

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      8. “I think the fastest route of his existence getting out would be by the grain ships coming into the city.”

        If the elves have those ‘sendings’, so have at least some of the embassies and spies.

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      9. Oliver we know the temples have them or something of the equivalent. We can bet that the conclave has an equivalent and it’s a pretty safe bet that when the prince went to save his father he told him all about the weird wizard who sent some flesh golem after him. All of these groups have something in common there obsessively secretive so the fastest route for his existence to get out would be through a different path than those three. Maybe the grain ships or maybe an especially wealthy and manipulative Noble.

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      10. Any time three groups who are related by community, elite status and politics know something delicious or dangerous that could enhance or endanger their power, ALL of them will leak like sieves.

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      11. Most times yes if they think it will benefit them but they will most likely leak bits and pieces no one giving the hole picture.

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      12. Oops.

        Not just the embassies–the Asgardian Church, also.

        Remember what High Priest Holger Drakebane up in Lanrest did? He sent information about Daniel to the Asgardian Church in Kozalin. We should expect that the Asgardian Church in Kozalin communicated all sorts of information about Daniel to other Asgardian churches all over Europe.

        Probability of those messages being HIGHLY inflammatory is…rather significant.

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    3. “Beings of considerable magical power AND skill are still beings to be respected, but the gap between them and the more ordinary mortal powers is much less”

      That I doubt. He is making magical skill more important by giving out mana. Revenge of the nerds on steroids.

      You just redraw the class lines. Minor mages used to be more like mundanes. Now any magic at all makes you cool.

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      1. He is doing two things.
        1) His mana amulets are greatly increasing what a skilled magic user can do. Yea for team Mage.
        2) His tools (weapons, armor, wards, etc) produced by his magic factories are making powerful magical abilities available to non-mage types. While non-mage types always had access to magic, it was expensive and just limited to the aristocracy. Even then, only the riches or most connected had a lot of magical tools. With his factories and mana stones, Daniel can equip everybody with really potent (if limited) magical tools and weapons.

        So really the argument is: Does the fact that several million non-mages get a lot of magical tools gain more collectively than a small number of mages who gain a lot of power individually. I would also argue that magical beings (as opposed to mages) lose. A big part of a dragon’s power is their huge mana reserve (vis-a-vis mortal mages). If everybody can have a Daniel magical amulet (even the dragon), the dragon’s mana pool might double but the typical mages by increase by a factor of 10. And a thousand people with guns is a lot more dangerous to even this enhanced dragon than a thousand people with swords were to the un-enhanced dragon.

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    4. #3,#5 and Oliver’s #6 options please, I don’t think Danial wants to rule anything except his island and that’s just to protect his coven and children, if he can convince the king that he’ll be a good vassal then he will happily let someone else rule and pay some taxes as long as whoever it is keeps his nose out of the running of the citadel.
      Turning the management of the power stones over to the conclave or some type of magic guild may lessen his headaches. Eventually the making of will get out but it wont be something mastered by your normal mage, it’s a very complex spell and will take a normal wizard years to master and that’s after years of other wizards cracking the code so to speak. so Danial makes the power stones and rents them to the Guild and lets the guild determine who is worthy or not, if one gets out of control he simply shuts it off.
      I like the idea of the magical revolution, his biggest contributions to it will be the power stones, the Magic Factories and his method of making power stone enhanced enchantments, which both increases the speed of enchanting as well as the relative power of the enchantment. These three things alone when taught to other wizards will spark the revolution, Danial just needs to let it run where it will, though he might want to turn the black citadel into a mage college. Ellin would love that, actually all of the witches would love that. he would NOT call it hogwarts.

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      1. “if he can convince the king that he’ll be a good vassal then he will happily let someone else rule and pay some taxes as long as whoever it is keeps his nose out of the running of the citadel”

        Daniel may not want to. Hecate sure wants to. Cerise is her high priestess.

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  8. “Really, anything after the Classical Greeks formalized the practice of magic seems like it ought to be different.”

    How many Greek mages were there? If the had only a dozen per generation or so, the Romans could still have won, especially if they also had mages.

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    1. That would make sense. I’m thinking some events would be same or similar, while others are different enough to begin to see a trend. By about 300 BC, either the Romans have absorbed the Greeks or it most likely won’t happen and Rome will be a much smaller realm, because magic has spread and changed the balance of power on battlefields..

      We’d have to assume the Gods and Goddesses intervene or simply meddle from time to time, also. However, we know the Asgardians took Olympia at some point, and that does lead me to expect Vikings or Varmlanders invaded Greece for a while. Did they sail all the way there? Did they use the Mediterranean or the Russian rivers and Black Sea route? I kind of like the Russian rivers route for that, actually.

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      1. The Norse gods are Norse versions of the Germanic gods. They were worshipped in Germany and whereever else Germanic tribes ended up during the migration period, too.
        The Franks and the Saxons were mentioned. Without Christianity they stayed pagan.

        And if I may, by 300BC the hellenistic empires were at the height of their power and Rome confined to the Italian peninsula.

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  9. LOL! Were getting way to deep into this I think Daniel will come back from wiping Gias army spend about a month1 or 2 getting ready when he get dragged into the war again cause that the only way this story can go any farther cause if it was up to him he would set his defenses and help the people he can i think that hes going to bring in the demon lady and her daughters asgard is going to try force his service and in thrall him maybe get in threw the weak spot in the coven defense or threw a seeky coven bound they all agree to with out knowing or something similar and they well be there thralls for a good bit intell he finds a way to break it with demon lady help while doing so take the seed lady and bring gias daughter into the coven cause she is betrayer by her father and the sister she tried to save as for the war its going to crumble apart once he breaks free from is inthrallment i want to say he nukes everything but i think hell find another make some other god killing weapon?

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    1. By whatever God whatever fictional writer comes up with out of their imagination or pulled out their ass I certainly hope so!

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      1. He hasn’t updated his blog since January. I think we are getting something soon. I feel it in my bones.

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      2. Kervyn I hope so but I don’t think so. I think he is planning to release several books at once all in different series.

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      3. I hope not. I need my Daniel Black fix. I’m going crazy here. I was only introduced to Daniel Black last year October/November, that was a few months ago, and I can’t wait. I don’t know how people who read it years ago are still holding on and staying sane.

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      4. Kervyn the only way I know to deal with it is inmersing yourself in other works that have a bunch of books out, like go for Demons of Astlan is a good transported to another world fantasy, or The Iron Druid Chronicles a good paranormal, or do like I do and go to the link of the book in goodreads and search the readers also liked for other works that migth interest you.

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    1. Two electrodes at a voltage in a sealed cylinder with a noble gas. The initial ionization due to the radiation will be enhanced due to the high voltage and ionize all the gas in the chamber. That generates an electrical impulse, as the chamber changes from the an electrical isolator to a conductor.

      That impulse is counted and used to cut the voltage. That together with traces of organic chemicals neutralizes the gas in the counter. A timer switches the voltage back on. The device is ready again.

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  10. I think Daniel needs to trade in the long run.

    So should Daniel build a navy and naval infrastructure? He has those airships. He can scale them up and apply the weight bannishment spell. Hundreds of tons of payload are possible.

    Protecting trade means that he can leave the actual trade to somebody else. However it also means that he might have to fire at Loki’s serpents.

    Airships are faster, can take direct routes and can get at places in the middle of a continent. Yet they require specialised crews.

    What should Daniel build?

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    1. What should Daniel build? I was about to suggest he build more airships like INTREPID, but then I thought about your comment regarding the weight banishment spell.

      How crazy is Daniel?

      Imagine a paper airplane shape but about twenty feet long.

      Imagine the airplane made of nickel-steel and coated with tungsten.

      Banish the effects of gravity, add some thrusters like INTREPID has, or his force spells like Cerise’s flight bike, and go hunting anything the enemy tries to put in the air.

      He could simply ram pterodactyls and the shape of his murderplane would slice them apart.

      Dragons might require the equivalent of Grinder screaming along all the delta wing leading edges.

      Wow.

      It’s raining dragon’s blood, and hailing body parts….

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      1. @ Colin I don’t know how old some of you guys are but I hope some of you are old enough to remember a movie called the navigator. Daniel could actually build a ship similar to the one in that movie. It came to mind when Oliver was talking about needing plastics are rubber for door seals. Door seals why?

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      2. You obviously never saw the movie Oliver think an entire ship where the metal can transform from solid to liquid and form a door and stairs. Hard to get a better seal then a smooth unblemished and unbroken surface. It’s an old movie but a lot of movies that came after used the same concept including terminator to seriously Oliver find it and watch it (the navigator.) You will see what I mean by (seal what seal who needs a seal?).

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      3. That works fine for Daniel, provided a golem hasn’t shredded half the airship when he’s asleep.

        It does not work at all for Nethwillin if Daniel is not there.

        Seals would help, but they’d have to be internal as well as external and compartmentalization would have to be fully implemented or the first golem to breach the hull will have negated the seals.

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      4. Colin what are you talking about internal seals? He would be building an air ship not a submarine. I think most of the problems could be solved with magic metal cutting tools in an emergency kit?

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      5. DaShoota, remember that nasty golem poison cloud bad breath during the big fight with the annoying little buggers who kidnapped most of Clan Nethwillin? The last thing you want on a mithril airship is for one of those to stick its head through a hole in your hull and belch, filling the entire passenger compartment with gas.

        That’s what I’d want a few compartment and sealed internal doors to stop.

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      6. Possibly but what would be the point if the ship builders made the ships of wood and Daniel provided the enchanted pieces why would a golem try to steal the ship for metal that doesn’t exist? I was thinking along the lines of a ship built by the ship writes with multiple masts. Daniel provides an enchantment that goes into or is mounted on the masts that provides lift then another enchantment on the rear of the ship maybe two to provide push (congratulations the locals have their own airship.)

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      7. I like the idea of a flying drekar, DaShoota. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longship

        The shipwrights would need to take extra care to mount the force bubble masts solidly, but they have the skills and technology to do that.

        The big question would be whether Daniel could power their flight enchantments with local mana or would he have to install a power stone on each ship? If he wants to avoid putting power stones on something that flies away from his control or influence, how else could he provide mana for the enchantments?

        Of course, then there would be the flight training. Not many people have the skills and experience Nethwillin clan members do. Then there is navigation. Vikings are good navigators, but are Varmlanders really still Vikings? Maybe some of them will make good crew and a few will be good commanders and navigators, but there will be some spectacular failures.

        “Wrongway Trygvyson Pioneers Flight Route To Monadnok. Says It Looks Nothing Like Moskva.”

        I bet the author could have all sorts of fun with flying Viking longships.

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      8. Yeah when I thought of the idea I had a vision of flying Viking long ships coming down in a Japanese town. With the captains thinking it was Egypt. Here’s an idea he could have the elves design a wooden version of the Intrepid and have the ship rights build it to spec and purchase it from them pouring more money into the local economy. The elves operate the new ships and train new cruise have some of the locals cycle through within a few years at the most you’ll probably have several fleets of locals in ships going everywhere. I still think that a heat conversion to manna would be best for its power source.

        (I can hear Oliver’s conniption fit from here 🤣)

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      9. DaShoota, those power stones Daniel makes to provide mana for some of his enchanted objects are worth all the metal we poor mortals could imagine, and more. Golems would smash flying wooden ships to steal the power stone(s) and sell them to wizards or gods.

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      10. Daniel has other options for lower levels of power generation. Did everyone just skip over the first book? He explored several ideas of power generation before actually making his matter to energy conversion enchantment. He only stopped because he found a compact powerful solution. E=MC2

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      11. DaShoota, I’ve been thinking about power storage and realized that Daniel is already familiar with two examples of that in Flesh: Avilla’s twin “storage vaults” and Alanna. The latter could be particularly useful if Daniel has any luck convincing someone from one of the Groves to try transforming into a living wooden airship.

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      12. Maybe Daniel does not actually need natural rubber for door seals. If his chemistry is good enough, maybe he can figure out how to make a flexible silicone seal, or a gel seal? As long as they are cheap and easy to replace, they don’t have to be as durable as plastics and rubber.

        I think the over-pressure is covered — didn’t Daniel learn an air spell while working with Elin to create fun environments and hiding places for the Naiads?

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      13. I thought about it, as the Patreon parts contained something about it.

        It seems to me that such a craft is capable of operating safely only in clear skies and during the day.
        Daniel’s magic knows no up and down. So the pilot has to provide that. The pilot however, has no weight, if you use the weight cancellation spell. That does not necessarily mean zero-g, as Daniel has force magic. He can glue you to the floor of the craft. But not down. Hence you will happily plow into the ground if you cannot see the horizon.

        And anybody without an amulet would probably throw up piloting such a craft.

        There is another issue. At zero-g the difference between a heavier than air and a lighter than air craft vanishes. But buoyancy does not. If you hive the craft the wrong shape and ramp up the weight banishment too much, it will keel over or hang with the nose or tail up.

        Airships don’t have that issue. They are stable at rest.

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      14. They don’t have that problem only because the heavy part of the airship hangs under the buoyancy. Think of it like gluing a small weight onto one side of a helium balloon.

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      15. Daniel’s airships are true airships. Probably a bit crude, compared with the HINDENBERG, but also much less likely to explode in flames. They fly properly because Daniel has quiet rightly chosen to copy a technology that almost perfectly matches the types of magic he brings to the design.

        If Daniel were to try to create an airplane with his current understanding of aerodynamics he would drill a hole in the ground…or shoot half way to the Moon, which might be almost as dangerous.

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      16. Agreed, that weight/mass/gravity banishing spell would have huge implications for airships.

        So do Clan Nethwillin’s bags of holding.

        I wonder if Nethwillin has enough magic to create their own airships now that they have seen and flown INTREPID?

        When Daniel gives them access to a power stone of their own, many new things will become possible.

        Like entire new series of books….

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      17. Oliver, your points are powerful and make it very easy for me to back away from anything like the idea I suggested.

        Daniel himself has commented several times about the control, gravity and other “complications” of trying to emulate heavier-than-air flight with magic. Too much hazard, too much time needed to correct for the hazards, and too much hazard testing the supposed fixes to the hazards to make sure they don’t introduce more hazards.

        One hundred years of aerospace engineeering to go from pre-Kittyhawk to F-35.

        Airships it will be, so he probably needs to build them stronger (titanium) and arm them better as well as increase the size some more. A few more guns, gunners and crew plus a better cargo load would be excellent goals.

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      18. Oops. You’re right, Oliver. Center of Mass and Center of Gravity are both kind of important to airplanes, and I suspect both would be compromised or even nonexistent in a weightless craft. He’d need a computer to manage all the force vectors to compel that thing to fly. And the computer software would have to be significantly error free. Which will be tricky since we all know Daniel is definitely NOT error free when it comes to personal flight–the closest he has come to powered heavier than air flight.

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      19. I think Danial needs to stay with the airship configuration, Banish around 75% of the weight but make it adjustable for ballast if required. This would also lessen the size of the force fields required that supply lift and reduce the sail area thus increasing maneuverability and increase speed. Placing the dimensional bag spell inside will increase the payload, depending on the capabilities of the spell.
        I think he needs to place an island on top of the force fields with an AA mount on top to provide top cover, they could access it via force tube that runs through the force bubbles and a rope ladder so it can raise and lower with the field. this could also be a convenient place to store any small air craft such as the skimmers with a modified Danial’s flight ring spell, attach a few AA guns with a protective force bubble and have instant armed escort fighters.
        He’s going to need a fleet of these….

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      20. Yeah when I made my comment I wasn’t thinking he would banish all of the weight that ballast idea was in my head.

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      21. “You obviously never saw the movie Oliver think an entire ship where the metal can transform from solid to liquid and form a door and stairs”

        That would depend on operational magic wouldn’t it? Thus in case the vehicle is damaged, you would be trapped in the then current configuration. That could be airtight and closed.
        While magic is operative, however, it is difficult to see why you could not seal vehicles with force fields. They are demonstrated to be airtight.

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      22. Yes they are demonstrated to be air tight. But he’s already perfected the morphing metal his staff is made from it he used it at the end of book 3 to fight a demigod there was a lot of morphing metal involved.

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      23. Besides that who builds a ship without putting in an emergency kit to get through a bulkhead? If I can think of a dozen tools he can manufacture cheaply and quickly to get through a sheet of metal I’m sure everyone else here can come up with at least a few.

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      24. INTREPID’s hull is better than sheet metal, but not MUCH better.

        A good axe would carve through it quickly enough for some air holes, then more bashing would eventually rough form an exit.

        Better by far to use Daniel’s tools, but where there’s an axe or a punch there’s a way…out.

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      25. “One hundred years of aerospace engineeering to go from pre-Kittyhawk to F-35”

        Too much potential for him to stay away for long. They’d make splendid fighters and observation platforms. But not for cargo.

        Now that I think about it, he has read the comics we have read. Daniel’s lift cells can have an almost arbitrary shape. The Intrepid looks like a conventional airship because he wanted a craft that can move on the ground. Dropping that requirement you only need the lift cells on top and most heavy stuff on the bottom. You can enclose the lift cells in a metal hull.

        And Daniel can make an indicator for another enchantment. Using the magic he uses to call Grinder to his hand, he can make a “home pointer”. Depending on the range of his links he could even make some sort of navigation beacons.

        But anyway, if you take these things together, you will see that they combine.
        I think Daniel will build helicarriers, well aerostat carriers.

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      26. Metal clad (titanium) aerostat carriers make sense to me, especially if Daniel ever has the time to figure out airplanes. Just having metal (titanium) airship shells would give him and Nethwillin significantly enhanced protection against dragon and pterodactyl attacks.

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      27. “A good axe would carve through it quickly enough for some air holes, then more bashing would eventually rough form an exit.”

        True for the Intrepid. Not true for an (armored) skimmer. And that is where you really want to keep the corrosive fog, gas and venomous insects out.

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      28. Seals would definitely be good for the armored skimmers.

        Hence, back to my comments about flexible silicone or gel seals. They might not be as durable as natural rubber, but are likely to be “good enough” if Daniel can figure out how to make them.

        For that matter, local expedients might suffice. How about thick, heavy, wet felt for a bug seal that also has some effect against some gas attacks?

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      29. Thick soft leather would probably work better 2 pieces one on each surface one on hatch one on hatch way.

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      30. “Center of Mass and Center of Gravity are both kind of important to airplanes”

        Now we need an engineer. I can tell you that if you want to apply force to an object, the center of mass tends to go to the front. Basically think of it as an arrow. The heavy warhead in front and the fins at the tail end. Daniel has not removed inertia. His craft still needs the full force to accelerate. Technically bags of holding might also affect inertia or they would be extremely wierd to carry, but anyway let’s assume he does not use that.

        Daniel is not really an aerodynamic flyer. He is a ballistic object with antigravity. We do not know how much weight he retains, but his engines are definitely able to overcome it. So we are talking about a kind of semi-rocketship not an aircraft.

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      31. “Daniel is a ballistic object…”

        GRIN

        Yes, the sorts of airplanes Daniel will probably start with probably should be, conceptually, more a rocket ship than a Spitfire.

        On the other hand, given his favorable connections with the Groves, and the demonstrated abilities of some of their members to shapeshift rather dramatically, Daniel ought to be able to show a dryad how to become a flexible, wing flapping, flying tree.

        Of course, if I were them, I’d have Cerise provide the flight training.

        Daniel’s methods would result in too much kindling.

        SNICKER

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      32. “I was thinking along the lines of a ship built by the ship writes with multiple masts. Daniel provides an enchantment that goes into or is mounted on the masts”

        And the masts pop out of their sockets. Alternatively the ship breaks apart. You need to change ship design a lot to accomodate a force pulling from above. If you enchant the whole structure the force magic can pull on the whole structure. With enchanting only the masts that option is gone.
        And the hull planking sort of makes no sense when you move through the air. A framework covered in canvas is kind of the logical answer

        And there is the issue of structural strength. Large aIrcraft are built out of aluminium for a reason. Wood is even worse than steel as a material. He would need to give them aluminium or titanium and tools to work it, like magical welding.

        This is doable. In the long run it is even beneficial. But it is not simple. It amounts to Daniel establishing an industry and training people.

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      33. Oliver you are wrong on multiple accounts you really have a habit of not reading earlier post. If the ship design was flipped upside down mounted inside of a larger hull design and had the masts connected to the ribs and spine it would hold. That is the design that the very first airships made of wood I might remind you had. Basically they were 2 sailing ships one stuck inside the other upside down connected to the ribs the masts we’re connected to the spine and ribs of the top section that was connected to the balloons which provided lift if you do research you can still find the designs in your local library or online they date back before the Wright brothers. They were also in common use.

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      34. Austrian Zeppelins of WWI were constructed out of plywood, not (much) aluminum.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Schütte-Lanz_airships

        Of course, their resin adhesives were not anything like fiberglass, so the delamination quickly became a problem.

        Even so, some of those airships lasted for quite a few months, maybe even more than a year of service.

        Daniel and Kozalin might do better.

        Hmm…imagine a volunteer from the Grove who modifies her shape to become the framework and “skin” of an airship. The wooden “armor” properties that defend warriors could just as well strengthen and protect an airship.

        Now, the best part of that is the airship has a mind and senses of her own. She could literally learn to fly, if Daniel drilled and instructed her in the casting of his weight/mass/gravity banishment, force bubbles and thruster spells, while Cerise taught natural piloting. It would literally require months, maybe years to make this happen, due to the exceedingly slow learning curve, but imagine the results.

        Yet another fanciful bit of flying fun!

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      35. “Austrian Zeppelins of WWI were constructed out of plywood”

        The main problem is using enchanted masts. If you enchant only a part of the structure, the whole weight of the ship will need to pull on those parts. The force is limited to these parts because the force magic can act only on parts that exist as the object is enchanted. And the force is a pull because the center of buoyancy must be above the center of mass.
        You can build a framework and have the lifting bubble inside, but that is a waste. It needs no support. It is a force field. And if you do that, why masts?

        Masts mean tensile strength. A tree, or in general wood, is not made for that. It needs to hold up the crown of the tree, which pushes down. Trees are pushed down and bent, but not stretched.

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      36. True.

        In fact, the article on Austrian airships actually mentions that wood has good compression strength while duralumin has good tensile strength.

        So, since the wooden airship is a fun thing that actually has some historical and scientific validity, can we achieve a magical one while taking advantage of wood’s compression strength?

        I would suggest putting a keel on top, a keel on the bottom and “attaching” the force bubble center at the center of the mast, halfway between the two keels. Join the keels at each end and the “mast” will be in compression while in flight. There will be some compression along the keels, also.

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      37. *sigh* with weight banishment he can make it out of Nickel iron and it will only add mass, as a mater of fact I would recommend Danial drop the “mythral” construction and go back to iron, much better for the odd Dragon attack and not so many people want to take your ship apart for selling.
        seals can be made of cork or oiled/waxed leather etc.. and is a good idea at height to control the living space, there’s no reason that the intrepid couldn’t cruse at 25k feet and avoid all the nasty winged critters that abound as long as there’s a pressurized cabin.
        As for propulsion he can stick with his force jets just add some more, also there’s no reason that the lift bubbles have to be round, flatten them out and use them as sail, they could be rigged to catch the wind as well as any masted water ship. Put the banishment spell on a block and set it to banish a variable tonnage, you could make a ship out of wood, add banishment blocks until you reach the desired weight toss on some masts with the flattened lift cells and all a water borne ship captain would need to learn is takeoff and landing.
        It might be a better idea to design container boxes that the airships pickup and carry with their own weight banishment blocks installed, this increases the ease of transport. Nethwellin will just load up a container bound for a city and when its ready an airship swoops in latches on and off it goes. Hell this is the rebirth of the trucking industry. A Dark elf with their left arm sun burnt, wearing bad flannel with the arms torn off, a cocked back horned viking helmet and mirrored sunglasses, chewing on a wad of chaw, leans over and spits out the window, while hes humming to the strings of a dulcimer that’s playing over the gingerbread sound box mounted to the dash (candy buttons) checking the mirrors as he dumps another container box in the yard.

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      38. “I would suggest putting a keel on top, a keel on the bottom and “attaching” the force bubble center at the center of the mast, halfway between the two keels.”

        That turns the upper keel into more or less a parasitic structure. And why use a mast if chains, ropes or cables would serve the same purpose?

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      39. Ooh–I like that. A classical Peter Pan flying galleon just needs very sturdy rigging.

        The “bottom keel and top keel” design is my tongue in cheek humorous attempt to push the Austrian plywood airship design. At the time I thought those had integrated top and bottom “keel” elements as part of their structures, just like the balsa model planes I remember building as a kid, but I have since noticed that they were more like a geodesic design.

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      40. Giant skimmers. If they require too much mana to run on the ambient supply he could include mana batteries which he charges up at the Citadel. We know mana can be stored in magical batteries because Cerise said that witches routinely did that with their athames. No reason Daniel couldn’t do the same for his vehicles (and batteries wouldn’t have the same draw for interested parties as power-stones would). This also obviates concerns about aerodynamics or weather. A battleship-sized skimmer which floats along a couple of meters above the ground (or the ocean) would be pretty much indestructible, and could just settle on the ground if the weather got too energetic (or submerge for that matter).

        The mana batteries could also power weapons and be interchangeable, ala ammunition magazines in real-world guns.

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      41. Lots of fun ideas there, jabrwok. Thanks for the reminder that Cerise’s athames demonstrate another type of mana storage “battery” that Daniel can easily study. Cerise could help him create one.

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      42. @jabrwok. I said the same thing before, but no one probably read it (either on page 2 or 3, but I’m the only person who probably read every single comment in this blog). He can charge his devices at the base.

        Daniel already said he isn’t going to let people have his matter to mana technology (i.e those who are not bound to him by oaths or magic). This “furnace to mana” talk and all the other ridiculous things are just getting out of hand.

        When you read a book you don’t take things at face value, you have to read in between the lines, authors strive at this art. Giving you hints without stating it.
        From my “in between the lines” of Daniel Black, Daniel is not going to do anything that gives people the opportunity to get their hands on his converters. The whole reason he made the first power stone tonnes heavy was so no one can easily steal it.

        Mana batteries, and mana recharge stations with the power stones DEEP in vaults are the future of Daniel’s airships. The ships will have multiple batteries for redundancy, AND the option to siphon ambient mana in case you are stranded and need to send an SOS.

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      43. Yes, I do like your ideas on this, Kervyn.

        Since the officers and crews of most airships like INTREPID will be from Clan Nethwillin, Daniel might add another level of “just in case” by providing one self-powered amulet keyed to the commander.

        They could slowly recharge one or more mana batteries with that.

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      44. @Kervyn: Missed that. This is a long discussion, and the threading is a pain (why isn’t there a “reply” button after every comment?).

        Given how no one on this page had mentioned mana batteries (aside from the organic ones in Alanna and Avilla’s bosom) I suspect everyone else had forgotten about the possibility.

        Energy density in the batteries would be a concern, but I don’t think there’s any textual basis for conjecture on that topic.

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      45. Daniel is already experimenting with that in book 3. He built the first version of a battery inside the new flamers when he was going to rescue the elves.

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      46. And the enchantment to siphon ambient mana into that battery on the flamethrowers is exactly the sort of magic Steelbinder and the Conclave do NOT want to see replicated all over Kozalin, where it would steal power from THEIR enchantments.

        Of course, enchanted items with batteries that are recharged at the “Church of Daniel” would quickly outclass almost everything else in Varmland.

        “You want a flaming, screaming banshee of a monster-killing weapon? Daniel’s are the BEST you can buy! Tested in battle against Mountain Trolls and Demons. Ten gold to purchase and only one gold to recharge.”

        It won’t be long before the Asgard Church and the Conclave realize there is something worse than Daniel’s enchanted items sucking all the ambient mana out of Kozalin.

        What happens when sales of his ovens, warmth cloaks, weapons and other enchanted items suck all the ambient MONEY out of Kozalin?

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      47. One question is how dangerous is a God if Daniel makes the city and all of its surrounding area magic less. Except for himself and the pantheon he follows. That could be a huge home field advantage.

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      48. “What happens when sales of his ovens, warmth cloaks, weapons and other enchanted items suck all the ambient MONEY out of Kozalin?”

        Deflation and shortages. Daniel however is buying food and other stuff. And he will probably sell his stuff through merchants, who will make a profit.

        But the general trend will be inflation and shortages. No food and too many people.

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      49. Exactly, Oliver. Obviously, the next thing Daniel should do is make sure the people of Kozalin are enabled to grow their own food. That means Kozalin needs something like the big artificial growing spaces he created on Black Island. We already know he can do it, and quickly. Sure, there won’t be any nymphs, dryads or such in the Kozalin growing spaces. They will still have endless growing seasons all year long. Somebody will need to provide a solution to the rapid soil depletion. That seems like an opportunity for the Conclave’s younger magic users, or some clever refugee with as yet undisclosed magical talents.

        Alternatively, Kozalin will need to be able to trade something for food, and that trade has to happen with somebody we don’t yet know exists. Italy is on the way to being ruined by Great Beasts. Egypt is facing its own ancient nemeses. No word on France…yet. It seems like Gaia and Loki have hammered all the big grain producing areas anywhere near Varmland.

        The magical industrial revolution that Kozalin begins to experience with Daniel’s enchanted items and contact with his ideas, will eventually generate production of trade items sufficient to purchase all sorts of products from survivors of Fimbulwinter in other lands, undoubtedly shipped by Nethwillin airships and some sort of powerful sea-going vessels perhaps also influenced by Daniel’s ideas. Certainly, they will be defended with mana battery powered versions of some of his weapons.

        Of course, “eventually” is several books into the future. Kozalin must survive the next book, first.

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      50. I was thinking that if he gets control of the city. He could move the wall out and replace the mote and old wall with a huge farming ring.

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      51. If the city were to be expanded, would they have the man power it would take to defend it? Is the city secure enough to allow such agriculture? I am sure Gaia could produce some nasty plant diseases.

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      52. I’d expect a significant fraction of the refugees are farmers, probably the ones who previously lived closest to Kozalin.

        When they die, there are no replacement farmers. Everybody else was too far away to reach Kozalin safely, and either died on their farms, in their village strongpoint, on the road or in places like Lanrest that are too small to stand for long.

        Hence, Kozalin had better figure out how to put those farmer refugees to work growing food, or everybody will eventually starve.

        There is plenty of wrecked real estate inside the walls of Kozalin after three enemy assaults that succeeded in penetrating one or more city districts. Consolidate a block of mostly destroyed and vacated properties, level it and raise a multi-level building to stuff with growing space. Repeat until sufficient growing space is available to more than feed Kozalin’s population..

        Daniel may have to suggest it, though I’d bet Brand.will. The Prince and other nobles will listen to him.

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      53. @Colin wrote There is plenty of wrecked real estate inside the walls of Kozalin after three enemy assaults that succeeded in penetrating one or more city districts. Consolidate a block of mostly destroyed and vacated properties, level it and raise a multi-level building to stuff with growing space. Repeat until sufficient growing space is available to more than feed Kozalin’s population..

        If Daniel has time and inclination he’d probably be best employed simply banishing the outer boroughs of the city and building a wall around the core (or build the wall first and then banish the outlying areas). He’d get a larger killing field and he could set all the traps he wanted, plus Kozalin would have a shorter wall to defend. Maybe turn the core of Kozalin into another arcology.

        Others have commented that the more Aesir worshipers he saves, the more of Loki’s ire he invokes, but the reverse applies too: the more Aesir worshipers he lets die, the more he strengthens Hel’s legions. He’s already indicated several times that while his own people come first, he really hates just letting innocents die. I expect that he’d like to save what’s left of Kozalin unless specifically barred from doing so by Hecate.

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      54. That all makes good sense to me, jabrwok. I could imagine Daniel piecing it together in the tiny bits of time he will be allowed over the next several months.

        However, he probably needs to work first, fastest and hardest to make the food growing happen.

        Black Island cannot feed Kozalin, and I really doubt that Kozalin can feed itself with seaborne trade.

        Their whole culture is based on something like eighty percent of the people farming to feed the remaining twenty percent. It might even have been more like ninety percent farmers before Fimbulwinter and Daniel’s innovations.

        The Conclave will probably find it must provide magical assistance to the refugee farmers Daniel enables inside Kozalin, unless somebody knows a spell that creates food…..

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      1. How many trained people do you need to run an airship? I think you could get away with less than a dozen. That translates into ten airships or so, based on the numbers seen during the evacuation.

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      2. Maybe more than ten but almost certainly less than fifty airships.

        Don’t forget Nethwillin is busy using INTREPID to go rescue the rest of their clan from other hidden places now threatened by Fimbulwinter and the coming Ice Age, places like the one in Mongolia.

        I have the impression we may see the group rescued from northern Norway/Sweden double, then maybe double again, so max out at something like two hundred elves and four hundred humans?

        Of course, then Daniel shows them how to fix their genetics so they can take full advantage of the sanctuary he offered them. That will have significant impacts on future numbers of Dark Elves…..

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      3. Daniel sed mobile ears like a dog or cat I say like a rabbit. I don’t think that they have only that in common with rabbits. I think after he sets them up with there own place he will wake up one morning and notice something different. O yah I noticed the difference now so many little elves!

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      4. Let’s say he can scale them up to 100 tons. 10 ships and only 10 trips per year would give him an annual hauling capacity of 10 000 tons. For internal needs that is ample. You can feed thousands of people with that capability.

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      5. “Think long, thin island in center of river”

        Tactically speaking you want your fortress to be square or, even better, a hexagon. If it is long and thin you have more walls to defend.

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      6. Fortunately, it probably won’t come to anything that extreme very soon. Imagine a hammerhead with the dock/access route as a “handle”. If Daniel added five or ten acres to each side of his original ten acres he could double or triple the area of Black Island while keeping the perimeter relatively square. Not quite square, but close.

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    2. I am of the opinion that for trading the Airship are good, yes he will atrackt a lot of attention, but it will be one of the fastest ways for him to procure and deliver goods. Plus it can serve as a figthing potential when needed. A devastating one at it.

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      1. What about having the ship rights build ships that could use his enchantments. Shouldn’t be too hard for him to build an enchantment that could be placed on a ship in three or four places to provide propulsion and lift. Vikings were pretty good at building ships that should take them about a month to figure out how to build one that can be pulled up by a masts instead of pushed by a masts and how to mount a propulsion enchantment on the back.

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      2. Thats an interesting idea. He wouldn’t be losing to mutch time summoning the material to build it, and only enchancing it himself.

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      3. Sea-going ships with significant enchantments would either have to draw all their mana from their local environments or Daniel would have to equip them with power stones.

        For good and sufficient reasons as Oliver pointed out, Daniel is not going to be eager to equip somebody else’s ships with his power stones.

        It is really easy to imagine Jormungandr smashing such a ship to steal the power stone for Loki.

        On the other hand, it would be interesting to see how much Daniel could do to create powerful weapons, engines, tools and other enchantments that do not require a power stone.

        Come to think of it, airships have almost the same risks as sea-going ships, but Nethwillin is allied to Daniel and will probably be in communication with him.

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      4. I was thinking about an alternate power source of some sort. Ships in midevil periods had cooks and kitchens so that conversion of heat to manna idea might work or a enchantment that only sucks up manna to power other enchantments?

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      5. Well, Daniel knows enough about steam to maybe create semi-magical steam engines.

        Could he use conjured pure water in a monotube steam generator with mana-fueled fire to produce enough steam to drive a propeller?

        Or, he could go whole hog and just help design ships big enough to sail with coal fired steam engines.

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      6. “Well, Daniel knows enough about steam to maybe create semi-magical steam engines”

        Why would he do that while force magic can turn a propeller? Or water in a jet engine?

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      7. Like the airships Daniel is gifting to Nethwillin, a coal or magic fueled, steam-powered sea-going ship is simple enough technology for Varmlanders to use, even if understanding comes only slowly.

        The transition from big, sail-only ships to bigger, stronger steam battleships was something like fifty years in our world, without magic.

        Battle of Trafalgar (1805) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Trafalgar

        Battle of Lissa (1866) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lissa_(1866)

        At some point, with enough magic weapons and defenses, probably enabled by Daniel’s power stones, a small fleet of strong ships could take down Jormungandr if He is foolish enough to attack them.

        It’s all about how Daniel can enable a MUCH REDUCED population of humans and other people to act in their own right to take back their world from the monsters Loki and Gaia loosed upon it.

        While also dodging icebergs off Calais….

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      8. It would get out eventually he just needs to delay the getting out part for 5 to 10 years. If that takes a few dead crews and booby-trapped furnaces so be it.

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      9. “It’s a harsh world embrace the harsh”

        But I do. Black Island is supplied. Airships can do the job without Kozalin. So let the mundanes starve. No need to endanger the monopoly.

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      10. Wrong the monopoly itself is multiple vulnerabilities he will have to use his own tek that makes him the target himself. By not spreading it throughout his people he becomes a week link if something happens to him it all ends. He sets his family up to be made into hostages against him. He limits the size of his teratory making himself open to being surrounded by potential enemies. He gives others a reason to fear him and try to end him. Most of all if he’s right and Ragnarok is going to last for 30 years he’s going to need all of the resources and people he can save in Europe if he wants to survive it. He will also need to make himself and the nation he grows around him for his own protection as strong as possible for after Ragnarok provided he survives it because other nations will seek to take advantage of him. To do all of that he needs a strong willed independent minded survival oriented heavily armed population with access to quite a lot of his simpler less powerful enchantment technology.

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      11. DaShoota, this makes good sense to me.

        “He will also need to make himself and the nation he grows around him for his own protection as strong as possible for after Ragnarok provided he survives it because other nations will seek to take advantage of him. To do all of that he needs a strong willed independent minded survival oriented heavily armed population with access to quite a lot of his simpler less powerful enchantment technology.”

        Daniel seems to be well on the way to doing this in the area near Black Island and his big, immobile power blocks. He can probably extend the linked enchantments idea as much as he needs to defend Black Island and Kozalin.

        What he will not be able to do, without some sort of mana storage invention, is send five airships out to five different locations with Nethwillin crews and no power stones. They will have to have at least one Nethwillin mage of some competence on board, equipped with a self-powered amulet like the one Daniel wears.

        That will make them targets for acquisition, and some very powerful human mages WANT those self-powered amulets.

        Sucks to be them. As soon as Daniel knows a self-powered amulet has been captured, he will wipe it clean by remote control. If he’s really annoyed, he might detonate it.

        Sad to say, however, the Nethwillin mage who previously wore that amulet, and probably their Nethwillin fellow crewmembers, are probably dead or on their way to a slave market.

        Which brings up another point.

        Daniel in general, and Nethwillin specifically, will have an exceedingly HOT reaction to contact with any slave traders.

        I would not be the least bit surprised if freed slaves some day walked off a Nethwillin airship on its return to Black Island.

        This should have interesting long term implications for the reputation of Dark Elves.

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      12. Letting the “mundanes” perish is definitely an option.

        However, is it an option Daniel would choose?

        That does not seem to be in his character.

        I bet he at least tries to convince Kozalin that “big box” protected growing spaces are a good idea.

        Hey!

        Maybe he can negotiate with the Prince for an expansion to Black Island for that job?

        Doubling the size of Daniel’s domain would almost guarantee his people survive Fimbulwinter and Ragnarok.

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      13. Here’s island is in a river if he expands too much he will have to start getting rid of shoreline to keep the water flowing or at the very least to keep a moat around it when the rest of it freezes.

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      14. Daniel has already dealt with the “moat around the island” by testing his harbor heating rocks off Black Island. Just add more until it is completely surrounded. In fact, I think he already did that..

        If the Prince is smart, he will encourage Daniel to grow Black Island parallel to the river, not across it.

        Think long, thin island in center of river/harbor, with current passing it on either long side.

        The bigger and more successful Black Island is, the better trading partner its population will be for Kozalin’s merchants.

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      15. “The transition from big, sail-only ships to bigger, stronger steam battleships was something like fifty years in our world, without magic.”

        In that case the issue is unlikely to be the engine, but the propeller. And to link it to the engine so that the hull doesn’t leak too much water. And the question whether, if you have magic to control the wind, a steam ship is really better than a sailing ship.

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      16. Good questions all, and I will add one more.

        Is a propeller even necessary if Daniel gives the ship a force generating engine instead of a steam engine?

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    3. “there’s no reason that the intrepid couldn’t cruse at 25k feet”

      Lift. It drops off with the density of the air. And, in a world full of magic, are you sure those heights are uninhabitated? You might just exchange dragons for cloud sharks or whatever. Or you contact the Sylph Empire and they want to see your passport.

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      1. Oliver, I’m thinking you may be very close to correct with that “Sylph Empire” humor.

        I just finished reading FIMBULWINTER again and was able to clarify somewhat my understanding of what Daniel sees when he uses his Mana affinity to examine the air and snow around him. He does NOT seem to see elementary particles of magic everywhere. What he does see are very minor “spirits of the air” randomly scattered everywhere.

        We also know from EXTERMINATION that Clan Nethwillin has some influence with more and potentially bigger spirits of the air, which they use to assist INTREPID travel faster.

        It is worth noting that Daniel and Nethwillin encounter those “bigger” spirits of the air several hundred or thousand feet above the ground.

        Are there even bigger spirits of the air (Sylphs) higher in the atmosphere?

        I noticed something similar in one of his early battles with Goblin shamans. They protected their Troll with a number of minor “Earth spirits” who kept Daniel from liquefying the ground like he had done to them before.

        Are there “bigger” spirits of the earth deeper beneath the surface of Earth.

        Clearly, there might very well be spirits of the air all the way up to the fringes of vacuum, and I’m not at all sure what Daniel would see if he used his Mana affinity to examine a discrete volume of vacuum between Earth and Luna..

        Zero Point Energy spirits?

        GRIN

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      2. I read that several times and never noticed that thanks. I like the idea of space born magic spirits might open up a whole new dimension to the series future. Especially if he’s the only one that has discovered them.

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      3. Given the way Daniel uses his Force magic to create bubbles of vacuum, all he needs to do to produce enough lift to achieve 20,000 or 30,000 or more feet of altitude is increase the volume of his bubbles.

        Of course, for the comfort of his crew and passengers it would also be nice of him to provide fresh air and warmth.

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    4. @jabrwok.
      Yea. The threading is a pain.
      When I read these comments I wonder if I read the same book as some of these people. Daniel says multiple times (and puts work into making it a reality) that he doesn’t want people to get their hands on his matter to mana enchantment…. Yet I see people talking about Daniel giving it away so people can boil water and make stew….

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      1. Of course, Daniel himself “gave away” or even sold warmth cloaks, room warmers and ovens all the way through FIMBULWINTER and part way through BLACK COVEN before he began creating the power blocks and linking enchanted items to those.

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      2. This brings up a good point, are all enchantments “ambient manna suckers” or just certain ones. What’s the difference in power requirements between the flame throwers and say the language ring? Does the ring also require ambient manna to operate or is there some internal battery? if so then does the ring have a predetermined lifespan? it’s always on so does it draw more manna from the surroundings or is the user the battery in some way, and if so could Danial use his troops to power some of their own gear.
        Is this like a permanent enchantment that requires no more power due to the fact it has no physical action component or is there another reason that I’m missing. Does the Banishment spell require recharging or just the force bubble, the air refresh enchantment might require recharging do the Hull lights as well?
        Danial is not giving the ability to make his power stones away just the stones themselves. And yes I agree he needs to replace the hot stones he put at the bottom of the river with his current remote linked system so they don’t fall into other hands. But he could easily create a management body to oversee the use and maintain physical control of any stones he creates for trade. I like the Idea of the Ships captain wearing the amulet that powers the ship, that puts the power in trusted hands and gives theft safety options for shutoff.

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      3. First, we can probably state that sorcerors, sorceresses, witches, wizards and other magic users are “mana suckers” because we know Avilla slowly accumulates mana in her “batteries”. Cerise can enhance that process by giving her own mana to Avilla and Daniel can supercharge her from his sources.

        Second, we know there are some enchanted items that are mana suckers because Daniel builds some–the flamethrowers in EXTERMINATION. We also know Steelbinder asks Daniel about ambient mana use when they first meet. Steelbinder won’t be happy if Daniel creates many more of those flamethrowers and sells them around Kozalin. Fortunately, Daniel probably remembers that….

        Third, we know there are some spells that the wizard “charges” with power that is used up when the spell activates. The force blades grenade Daniel used against Holger’s main floor guards at the Asgardian Church in FIMBULWINTER would be an example of that.

        Fourth, we know there are enchanted items like the translation ring Nethwillin loans to Daniel. That item seems like it either gathers ambient mana by itself, or it drains a bit of mana from the wearer when in use. If the latter, then all potential wearers are assumed to have some ability to suck and/or store mana–that is a HUGE assumption. If true, it implies that many or all beings of Daniel’s new world are magic users, although many only demonstrate this in very minimal ways. We can assume in this case that every human, elf, golem, etc. dirt farmer or Conclave mage, has the same magical activity in their cells that Daniel saw when he analyzed and healed Avilla and Cerise. Too bad we cannot confirm that with other wounded, but Daniel does not comment on the magical content of injured soldiers’ and refugees’ cells.

        Or, I’m totally wrong and that ring is intended for Dark Elves only, all of whom use magic. Sigh.

        Fifth, we know there are spirits of air, earth, water and, presumably, fire. I’m guessing they are mana suckers.

        Where the Hel does all the mana come FROM?

        Is there a point source somewhere, like the Sun is a source of all sorts of radiation?

        Is the source universal, maybe like electromagnetism, and therefore different energy levels may be present in different materials and different states of matter?

        That will be something else to look for “between the lines” and in the lines of all four books.

        I’m sure I will read them all again, after sucking up THRALL when it is released..

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      4. “First, we can probably state that sorcerors, sorceresses, witches, wizards and other magic users are “mana suckers” because we know Avilla slowly accumulates mana in her “batteries”.”

        No, I am sorry, we cannot. It might just as well come from their metabolism or their thought processes or something else. That somebody stores something just says something about the capacity and capabilities of the source, not about its nature.

        It is true about the enchantments.

        “it implies that many or all beings of Daniel’s new world are magic users”

        No. Why? That you have something does not mean that you can use it.
        One thing, if you can sacrifice ordinary people for power, as you can, they will have to contain either mana or something that can be converted into mana.

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      5. That’s right, the Dark Portal devours sacrificed humans, possibly human souls, as a source of power. Maybe the ‘sacrifice’ converts souls into mana?

        I could argue that Avilla’s magic is probably sufficiently limited in immediate impact and scope that the energy driving it MIGHT entirely be derived from the food she eats, the liquids she drinks and the air she breathes, plus the extra she gets from Cerise. If those are true, they could be enough to explain her subtle magics until Daniel gives her an amulet.

        We know that Cerise absorbs energy from the monsters she kills. She seems to absorb some from their blood through her flesh and some from their bodies through her athames. That latter might involve converting their souls to mana. She might also be able to sacrifice souls to particular demons, unless those threats were all bluster. She can certainly sacrifice some of what she absorbs from demons to Hecate. Of course, she can totally rock that amulet Daniel gives her.

        How do Daniel’s personal energy reserves fill when he is not in contact with his amulet?

        I don’t think we can argue that the magic he performs while destroying the goblins and troll he fights immediately upon arriving in Avilla’s home comes only from the food he consumes, water he drinks and air he breathes. He hasn’t had a chance to do much of any of that. His mana supplies recharge slowly during and after the fight, before he creates his first amulet. There’s no ravenous hunger to replace depleted bodily fuel reserves.

        It seems to me he must be pulling ambient magic from the environment.

        Maybe that is the definition of sorcery? A sorcerer or sorceress can either accumulate ambient mana far better than normal people do, or it’s a unique ability that is called sorcery and probably a few other things.

        Wizards might be more like witches, stealing mana from other beings?

        Ultimately, there is a logical conflict between the energy generated by consumption and respiration, when we look at what the body needs in order to function not only properly but superhumanly, then look at the magics performed and how much energy they require. Not enough fuel is going into the bodies to explain the energy being used.

        How do we explain what Daniel did in his first fight if he is not sucking ambient energy?

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      6. In the books souls appear to be made of an Energen called essence. So far is I’ve read in the books I’ve been able to identify three types of essence divine essence, mortal essence and daemonic essence. I’m not sure but I don’t think the death whitch is transforming essence into manna it seems like she’s using essence the fuel some form of biological enhancement almost like controlled genetic evolution. It also appears that later with the help of her goddess she is refining it. In the books it seems like Daniel can see or perceive essence but he doesn’t seem to have the instinctive ability to manipulate it the way he does manna. I could be wrong on some of this much of it seems to be very vague.

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      7. Well, since Daniel’s affinity is mana, not essence, it makes sense that we don’t receive a clear explanation of essence.

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      8. “I don’t think we can argue that the magic he performs while destroying the goblins and troll he fights immediately upon arriving in Avilla’s home comes only from the food he consumes, water he drinks and air he breathes. He hasn’t had a chance to do much of any of that.”

        That is easy. It came from Hecate or the void between the worlds. He had been surrounded by energies that would tear him apart. The hard question is rather how he recharges.

        “His mana supplies recharge slowly during and after the fight, before he creates his first amulet. There’s no ravenous hunger to replace depleted bodily fuel reserves.”

        Well, it would be good if the human metabolism were able to react to a lack of mana. In fact in humans the generation of mana may be a side effect. Yes, this sucks. But there must be a reason human magic rose so late.

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      9. Maybe it didn’t arise later maybe get rose earlier and there was just no written record in an unknown history of it.

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      10. Why would we assume that human magic “arose” recently? Humans were surrounded by godly magic, spirit creatures magic, demonic magic and other “natural” magics throughout the entire prehistory of the species.

        Some of the elemental spirits of certain ancient geological phenomona like Yellowstone could be millions of years old. There is probably a spirit of the Atlantic Ocean somewhere and it must be hundreds of millions of years old.

        Human magic was shamanic, witchcraft and “good luck” long before Socrates formalized the study of magic approximately 2350 years before FIMBULWINTER begins.

        Sorcery and adepts happen “recently” in the traditions established by Socrates and his followers.

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      11. Okay, let’s assert that Daniel started off with a “full” mana battery because there was a LOT of available energy while Hecate dragged him across universes to Varmland.

        We still need to look at what his body used for “fuel” to “generate” mana when he rested after that first fight.

        For me, it still makes more sense that sorcerers absorb ambient mana from their environment.

        It also makes sense to me that elemental spirits of Water, Earth, Air and Fire would do the same.

        HOWEVER, maybe I could be convinced that Daniel’s affinity for elemental Earth magic is converting the energy of Earth to mana and storing it in his personal battery. There is bound to be geologic pressure building up in small or large local faults that could provide some energy to an Earth mage. Obviously, Fire affinity would be handicapped due to the generally low temperatures of Fimbulwinter, but even so there could be energy available to provide another tiny trickle to Daniel.

        So, there are two types of optional mana generation that don’t require Daniel to stuff himself with carbohydrates and oils to burn for energy to convert into mana.

        Any other suggestions?

        Thanks in advance–this is a great discussion for purposes of tabletop RPG backstory generation.

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      12. “How do we explain what Daniel did in his first fight if he is not sucking ambient energy?”

        Much better. Daniel was there for a few minutes at most before he fought. If he could suck at that rate he would never deplete for more than a minute or so. That means he arrived fully charged.

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      13. Good point, Oliver. The rate at which Daniel sucks mana or converts energy to mana is important. This is a really nice bit of “mechanics” to limit the magic system in a story or game. I really hate it when the hero becomes super powered almost immediately and is never really threatened after that.

        Daniel sure never has THAT luxury!

        He’s going to be a first rate Healer if only through direct experience keeping himself and his friends alive after so many traumatic injuries.

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      14. @Colin. “How do Daniel’s personal energy reserves fill when he is not in contact with his amulet?”
        Well before he had an amulet he used to sleep(got sleepy and tired when he burned too much mana), or he sat and rested and the mana slowly refilled on its own(after fighting the goblins the first time he had to rest to bring his reserves back to normal before making the stone amulet).

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      15. Hi, Kervyn. I’m looking a little deeper than “it refills while he sleeps.” I want to understand where the energy comes from. I never did believe other books where the hero stuffs himself/herself with food and then goes out to perform superhuman acts that would require half the output of Hoover Dam, not a dozen cheeseburgers and a giant Pepsi.

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      16. “Maybe it didn’t arise later maybe get rose earlier and there was just no written record in an unknown history of it.”

        Atlantis? Yes, a short life span is a further disadvantage. Yet, as Cerise said, other races have deeper wells. So humans are at a disadvantage.

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      17. “For me, it still makes more sense that sorcerers absorb ambient mana from their environment.

        It also makes sense to me that elemental spirits of Water, Earth, Air and Fire would do the same.”

        If the spirits do it the same way, why bind them to an enchanted object?
        Why do different races differ so drastically in magic capability?
        In particular, why are elves, who evolved in an environment richer in mana, better at sucking mana than people?
        Why do wizards live concentrated in a city, which has no problem with depletion? And for that matter different environments should offer different levels of mana to different kinds of sorcerers. There is no evidence for that.
        Why do witches carry their batteries on their person?
        Why do they charge them instead of making them suck on their own?
        Why can you power spells with blood?

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      18. If the spirits do it the same way, why bind them to an enchanted object?

        For control purposes presumably. Irithil specifically mentions that other wizards would probably bind an Air Elemental to the airship and issue commands to it. This was when he was commenting on Daniel’s control system.

        Why do different races differ so drastically in magic capability?

        Differential selective pressures presumably. Possibly ancestral patronage by various gods who interfered with their evolution. Other? Why do different races (really species in this context) demonstrate *any* differences from others? Might as well ask why wolves differ from bears.

        In particular, why are elves, who evolved in an environment richer in mana, better at sucking mana than people?

        That’s an excellent question. If mana was abundant in their evolutionary environment then there would be no selective pressure towards efficient use. Presumably they’ve developed better skills as they’ve been forced to subsist on a much more meager mana-feed subsequent to their exile from Svartalfheim. Possibly those who were bad at it died and failed to pass along their mana-dependent genes.

        Why do wizards live concentrated in a city, which has no problem with depletion?

        Steelbinder explicitly references the lack of mana depletion in Kozalin when Daniel asks him about selling magic items. He wants to prevent future depletion. As to why they all live in the city? Communication presumably, plus ease of access to non-magical goods and services. Humans are social animals, and having peers with whom one can interact directly, especially absent the Internet, is very useful.

        Given how much magic is actively used in Kozalin, the rate of natural replenishment of ambient mana must be relatively high, but given Steelbinder’s concerns, it’s evidently not infinitely high.

        And for that matter different environments should offer different levels of mana to different kinds of sorcerers. There is no evidence for that.

        We’ve only encountered one sorcerer AFAIK: Daniel. Everyone else has been a wizard or god or demi-god, and they have demonstrated different power levels. How much mana any given human wizard can use, and for how long, probably varies by individual genetics and practice. Daniel commented when he first arrived that his mana use acted like muscular fatigue rather than a mana-bar in a video game. I’d guess that with practice a wizard or sorcerer could improve his mana-channelling and replenishment abilities, but I don’t know of any textual evidence for that. Daniel hasn’t demonstrated such an ability as he’s had his amulet to act as a crutch.

        I wonder if mana-abilities might atrophy if not used…

        Also, it’s quite likely that ambient mana levels vary from place to place, but if mana operates like a fluid then such differences would tend to even out over time. I wonder what mana levels are like elsewhere in the Solar System myself:-).

        Why do witches carry their batteries on their person?

        Cerise says it’s so that they’ll have immediate access to more mana than their natural reserves will supply at a moment’s notice. Given the range limits of most magic, squirreling your power supply away outside easy access would mean you wouldn’t have it when you most needed it usually.

        Why do they charge them instead of making them suck on their own?

        That might not be an easy operation to program in. Daniel speculates that the elaborate nature of the covens’ magic might be due to their efforts to avoid wasting any mana, and Elin has commented more than once on how difficult enchantment work is for normal wizards. Accelerated mana-replenishment might simply not have been developed yet. Why didn’t Imperial Rome not use printing presses? The potential was there, but no one thought of it.

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      19. “Steelbinder explicitly references the lack of mana depletion in Kozalin when Daniel asks him about selling magic items.”

        Yes, but Steelbinder did not specify how/why Kozalin “lacks” mana depletion.

        I’m deeply suspicious that one of the basic functions of the Conclave is to manage ALL magic users in the city such that nobody ELSE creates and distributes enchantments or enchanted items that deplete the local ambient mana.

        This was so near the top of Steelbinder’s questions for Daniel that it seems to me EVERY magic user in Kozalin has had to answer it, FREQUENTLY.

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      20. D’oh! Why didn’t Imperial Rome not use printing presses? should read Why didn’t Imperial Rome use printing presses? or Why did Imperial Rome not use printing presses?

        And I even re-read that section twice. *sigh*

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      21. Wow, that’s quite a list, Oliver. Fortunately, I’ve already proposed answers to most of it, and so has the author.

        “Why do wizards live concentrated in a city, which has no problem with depletion?”

        Kozalin very much DOES have a problem with ambient mana depletion, and we know that because one of the first questions Steelbinder asks Daniel is whether Daniel’s magic uses up ambient magic. He especially does NOT want Daniel to mass produce lots of magic items that would use up ambient magic.

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      22. “If the spirits do it the same way, why bind them to an enchanted object?”

        That’s an easy one. Adepts have other things to do besides recharge enchanted objects. That’s what apprentices are for, and NO you may not use MY apprentices to recharge YOUR enchanted item! They are busy recharging MY enchanted items!

        Binding a spirit to an enchanted object provides a semi-permanent mana supply to power the object, doing so in a way that enables the Adept to sell the object and walk away.

        Why use a spirit? Because binding spirits is what that Adept just learned how to do and he/she is SO happy to FINALLY scrape those annoying damn customers off with the promise of a “self-powered” enchanted item.

        Remember to charge them DOUBLE for that.

        No, TRIPLE would be even better.

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      23. Huh, I hadn’t really though of bound spirits as a power source. I was thinking of them more in terms of a control interface or a servant which performed certain functions. No reason one of those functions couldn’t be supplying mana I suppose.

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      24. “Why do different races differ so drastically in magic capability?”

        Nature, nurture and evolution.

        I just finished reading BLACK COVEN and Cerise states during the invocation of the coven bond ritual that witchcraft is older than Prometheus.

        Not to mention Atlantis, which seems to be older than that.

        Presumably, in a universe that contains magic today and magic thousands of years ago, there may well have been magic since the original Big Poof.

        That would mean that evolution has included magic among the many other features of life, and natural selection has led to variation.

        I’d be surprised if it didn’t.

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      25. “And for that matter different environments should offer different levels of mana to different kinds of sorcerers. There is no evidence for that.”

        Actually, I don’t remember seeing evidence either way on this question. Adepts seem to have all sorts of different ways to achieve their goals with the magic skills they have personally developed.

        Plus, just about all the magic we see seems to require some sort of elaborate process to accumulate the mana needed to power spells, so how would we know if one area has more mana than another.the accumulation process tends to hide that from us readers.

        I’m inclined to agree that mana concentration is probably varied, and we see a few examples of that, like when Cerise describes the spirits of springs, etc.

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      26. “Why do witches carry their batteries on their person?”

        Difficult to say for certain.

        In Medieval society, people used to carry their dinner knife and, later, fork on their persons. Witches might have similar habits. We could even imagine some reasons for it, like sanitation, security, etc.

        Many witches are frequently or continuously on the run from Asgardians. What would be more important to keep on your person than the tool which is both your mana battery and the means used to charge that battery?

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      27. “Why do witches charge batteries instead of making them suck on their own?”

        The ancient nature of witchcraft seems to be all sorts of methods for harvesting, storing and using mana derived from creatures and other sources that have concentrated it themselves.

        Since witches are extremely unlikely to be trained by adepts, sorcerers and other magic users, most witches must be either self-taught or taught by other witches, with grandmother-mother-daughter relationships being most common. Grimoires might be a fairly recent advance, possibly only the last several thousand years, maybe less.

        After all, the alphabet and its use seems likely to be concentrated in cities, while witches may be distributed throughout the countryside, and there is virtually no public education. .

        Maybe. That’s my own prejudice speaking. We have no idea whether Varmland has any public education.

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      28. “Why can you power spells with blood?”

        Um, fresh blood is full of living cells and we know from Daniel’s musings about his own body that in the Varmland universe there are also various magical spirits.

        Hence, not only blood, but the freshest blood available is the best blood to power spells.

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      29. “Differential selective pressures presumably. Possibly ancestral patronage by various gods who interfered with their evolution. Other? Why do different races (really species in this context) demonstrate *any* differences from others? Might as well ask why wolves differ from bears.”

        No. If you have to power your magic from the environment, there will be an upper bound. You cannot suck up more than everything. There is no point in having a gigantic reservoir you could never refill.

        “Presumably they’ve developed better skills as they’ve been forced to subsist on a much more meager mana-feed subsequent to their exile from Svartalfheim. Possibly those who were bad at it died and failed to pass along their mana-dependent genes.”

        How? At there birth rate, how do they survive that?

        “Steelbinder explicitly references the lack of mana depletion in Kozalin when Daniel asks him about selling magic items. He wants to prevent future depletion.”

        But why worry about enchantments if you have all those wizards sucking up mana?
        Now you could argue that enchantments suck much better than people. But then they would build artificial suckers.

        “Given how much magic is actively used in Kozalin, the rate of natural replenishment of ambient mana must be relatively high, but given Steelbinder’s concerns, it’s evidently not infinitely high.”

        That makes much more sense if he worries about enchantments failing.

        “We’ve only encountered one sorcerer AFAIK: Daniel.”

        The elves. Given their problems they would surely select the places richest in mana.
        And we have seen races that do suck up environmental mana: the nature spirits.
        And in their case that feature was explicitly mentioned.

        “Cerise says it’s so that they’ll have immediate access to more mana than their natural reserves will supply at a moment’s notice. Given the range limits of most magic, squirreling your power supply away outside easy access would mean you wouldn’t have it when you most needed it usually.”

        That makes sense, but they could have multiple batteries.

        “That might not be an easy operation to program in. Daniel speculates that the elaborate nature of the covens’ magic might be due to their efforts to avoid wasting any mana, and Elin has commented more than once on how difficult enchantment work is for normal wizards.”

        But they do power enchantments from ambient mana. And they do have batteries.

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  11. Random thought. Daniel’s earth magic can summon all sorts of things from the earth. He really has barely touched the possibilities. For example, I am sure there are a host of mineral and crystal/gem components that are heavily used in magic (and difficult to get). The rough equivalent of the modern “rare earths”. Daniel can get it for you wholesale. Of course, he has not needed to do this so far, but he also has not really pushed ritual magic very far.

    Other possibility – can Daniel call down meteors from the sky? At the end of the day, it is a physical object traveling at great speed. That is enormously difficult to stop. And if you use a big enough asteroid, the impact can exceed the damage of a nuclear bomb. Lots of issue regarding aiming, avoiding the object burning up in the atmosphere, etc. But it is a possible “big gun attack”.

    Third possibility. Daniel has pretty much been building walls out of stone, reinforced by iron and magic. What if he built walls (or at least part of the wall) with ceramic armor like they use in the main battle tanks today. I am sure there are all sorts of trade offs, but it might be worth the effort to properly leverage hardened ceramics.

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    1. I think one of his spell is like a mini vertion of meteor strickes, when he summons molten lava and push them to his enemys, for him to summon the size of stone you are implying I think it will take a lot of time, and mana to pull not to mention that he will problaly need to be really high in the sky to manage to targuet and propel that big piece of stone.

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      1. I think such a kinetic energy weapon has already been described in the books talking about something called a sky hammer. Review the beginning of book 3 it’s in there.

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    2. As for Daniel calling down “meteors from the sky” we do have his mortar rounds. The only upper limit on their destructive power is the limit Daniel sets, and maybe the limit of his available power.

      Remember, he has already considered nuclear bombs, then later realized there might be a way he could make one happen. He decided then that he really did not want to draw THAT kind of godly attention to Black Island.

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      1. There is absolutely no comparison between his mortar rounds and a big old asteroid traveling super fast. The first destroys a camp, the second destroys a city. Agree at this point Daniel does not need an asteroid gun — and not sure he would know how to make it in any case.

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      2. dspring, while I’d agree the shapes of the two catastrophes would be different, I suspect the victims of it would not really notice.

        Daniel can drop “mortar” bombs from INTREPID.

        Those bombs can generate any amount of destruction Daniel enchants them with.

        Remember the lava bomb that wiped out the dwarves’ cave complex?

        Imagine that, enchanted to hover above a city’s magical defenses and continuously dump lava.

        If that’s not enough, imagine a dozen of them over one city.

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      3. He may not have to make it that sky hammer thing sounds awfully similar to it maybe just acquire that?

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      4. Agree the lava bomb can be used to destroy a city. It can (over time) overwhelm any general purpose defense like that which protected the camps. However, it is vulnerable to targeted defenses or counterspells that specifically target its nature.

        The Asteroid impact works differently, and thus cannot necessarily be blocked by the same magic.

        What the first three books has made pretty clear is that magical conflict is more like sword fighting than firearms. By that i mean a lot of magical energy is spent to effectively block or counter magical attacks. This puts a premium on flexibility as eventually you will use an attack the enemy is not set up to counter. This is usually great for Daniel as nobody can change as fast as he can with his Sorcery. But it also means that you cannot rely on any one type of attack too much as your enemies will become prepared to counter it and render it mostly ineffective.

        Example – the dwarves successfully countered several of Daniel’s standard attacks, but he had one (grinder plasma) that they could not counter and thus was able to prevail in the battle around the ship.

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      5. Yes, I agree with all of this.

        I even agree that the asteroid strike is a total Fist Of God surprise to anybody it hits, the first time.

        If they even suspect who sent it, the survivors/allies/gods start offering ship weights of gold or mythril to the assassin who separates Daniel’s body from his head.

        Now, just for the Hel of it, how would he cause an asteroid to strike a particular location on Earth, and not somewhere else?

        Maybe his Earth magic will somehow give him godlike calculation skills to apply to the orbital mechanics he needs to change, and the degree of precision he needs to achieve. Will he need to build a spaceship in order to personally visit an asteroid and modify its orbit?

        Alternatively, can Daniel conjure or summon an asteroid?

        That’s going to be one super complicated spell, and the mana demand will not be insignificant.

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      6. Colin you’re wrong it wouldn’t take that much manna to summon a kinetic energy weapon or KEW just a sufficiently dance mass traveling fast enough. He could summon it in orbit he doesn’t have to go into deep space. If he summoned a skimmer sized piece of nickel iron and used that trick the death which taught him to hold his spells together he could literally latch it on to the target and have the surrounding area of the target draw it in as fast as it can it would impact with the destructive force of a nuclear bomb going off.Think of it like having a stretched rubber band between the projectile and the target then just release the rubber band. ☄

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      7. Re: orbital weapons. Here you run into Daniel’s range limitations. He’d *have* to build a spaceship if he wants to bring down Rods from God. Even Cerise’s “bind the spell to itself” trick only extends a spell’s range to a few dozen yards. Her strategic spell-casting requires an emplaced receiver at the target IIRC. While Daniel can summon bits of the Earth’s core to himself, he hasn’t demonstrated the ability to summon them to significant distances without some mediating tool like his lava-bomb-bullets. The mortars, or future howitzers, would allow him to launch kinetic-kill ammo which summoned huge chunks of low-pressure magma when the ammo reached the peak of it’s trajectory. The magma-blob would then drop right on target and really ruin someone’s day.

        That said, and while it’s probably not worthwhile at the moment, I could totally see Daniel building spaceships at some point. Force-drive for atmospheric work coupled with summoning of high-pressure plasma once he gets beyond the atmosphere. Heck, maybe he could offer Loki an interstellar ark-ship and send him and his allies off to colonize another star system. Loki gets his own world to rule, the Aesir “win” Ragnarok, humans (and others) survive, and Daniel earns enough gratitude to save Hecate and her allies from the Aesir (ok, probably not, and the Aesir don’t really deserve to survive anyway).

        All of which raises another question: how is mana distributed throughout the universe? Are there magical Selenites and Martians and Venusians, etc? Could make for interesting future stories. A combination of Golden Age SF (where every planet in the Solar System harbored intelligent life) and swashbuckling sword & sorcery fantasy:-).

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      8. Jabrwok I was thinking more in terms of a remote control satellite. His coven mates have already made mention of strategic magic that is for targeting at long distance. The death witch made it sound like the magic technique for holding a spell together for a short distance was because of it holding together for a short time. It doesn’t say but this could be because of power limitations we still don’t know much about it but if it does he already has a fix for that (more power.)

        Step 1 summon rod from God.

        Step 2 use own version of local sekar spell.

        Step 3 use local technique to hold force magic together.(Super charge if needed.)

        Step 4 send rod on its way.

        Step 5 get newly made dark glasses and popcorn.

        Step 6 make sufficiently deep comment fitting for the world he is in. (I have become Thanitos death of worlds.)

        I have always liked Thanitos over Shiva.

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      9. Totally agree with all of this, jabrwok. However, Daniel’s future spaceship will need something like radar to keep the pilot informed about hazards to navigation and something like a computer to calculate orbits.

        Even if Daniel uses magic to accomplish constant acceleration/deceleration he will need some way to calculate orbits for when he shuts down the drives and drifts.

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      10. DaShoota, the trick with using a rock of any size from outside Earth’s atmosphere is finding it without radar.

        I suspect that Damiel is capable of pulling this off with nothing more than his mortar.

        1) Create a mortar shell that conjures a hundred ton lump of nickel-iron very high above the target.

        2) Enchant the lump with a Force spell that vastly increases the speed at which it falls.

        3) Aim very carefully.

        Several shots might be required, but as you pointed out, Daniel can probably achieve something like you want with a relatively small expenditure of mana.

        The mortar team, however, might need to requisition some brown pants.

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      11. The U.S.’s “THOR” KEW Design was for a tungsten rod 20ft long by 1ft round (Telephone pole), and weighing in at a little over 8T. When dropped from orbit it was supposed to reach mach 10 (7500mph) or so and could do around 11.5t TNT damage, its no nuke but it had real penetration potential. The real secret to KE Weapons is the speed, the faster you can get it the more kinetic damage it does. Danial doesn’t need to loft anything into orbit he has the equivalent of a Rail gun strapped to his waist. The longer his bullet is in the barrel the faster it goes, size it up to Howitzer or longer (say Intrepid length) and swap out the lead bullet for force field tipped Tungsten rod and Danial has a KEW for his own personal enjoyment. Just put some control fins and a tiny cockpit for the gingerbread pilot with a Snoopy WW1 Flying ace hat and you have Smart rounds…

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      12. Grady, that’s brilliant!

        I want a HUGE freaking GRIN on the face of that Gingerbread Kamikaze Pilot.

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      13. Grady, I like the option you suggest for another “bullet factory” in Daniel’s pistol–hypervelocity dense slug (HPDS)

        We know he can do nickel-steel core with a lead jacket.

        Maybe he can do nickel steel core with an iridium jacket?

        Remember your geology? What’s the K-T layer? There is a very fine layer of iridium-bearing rock EVERYWHERE on Earth, left by the asteroid that may have ended the dinosaurs. Okay, maybe no layer at the South Pole.

        Just enchant each bullet to spin and then add a Force Push that doubles acceleration every second continuously until impact or spell nullification.

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  12. It’s the third of April. We haven’t had an update from Mr Brown since January.
    Did anyone hear from him elsewhere since that time?

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  13. Can Daniel create other species? Is there any evidence wolfen or catgirls would breed true? In fact is there any evidence they breed at all? Tina got some divine help in that regard. The wolfen having three female members at presumably prime age and a lot of sex for almost three months allow room for growing scepticism.

    The same goes for the dryads. Two blessings morning and evening with multiple dryads. Where are the pregnancies?

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    1. Somewhere in THRALL the timing should be about right for Daniel to begin noticing births among refugee populations, and pregnancies among the people he is sheltering on Black Island.

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    2. That’s a good question maybe the author will answer them or Daniel will wake up one morning and get a few surprises. For wolfen I can see how they would be able to hide the wolfen cubs. In a wolf pack only the alfa female has cubs unless she is infertile then another she wolf gets to have the cubs but the alfa wolf takes them as her own. They keep the cubs in the den until they are old enough to be outside.

      Maybe the dryads are reproducing they just don’t gain a humanoid form until their tree is a certain age or size?

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    3. While I agree that the wolfen pregnancies are in doubt, I don’t see any trouble for the dryads. After all, the dryads are next to immortal, so long as the tree does not die. And while a simple apple tree is considered old at 200 years, others get considerably older, like a pine cone tree in california at 5000 years or an even older spruce tree in sweden at 9500 years.

      Somehow I doubt any dryad would willingly pick a shortlived fruit tree if those values are true, so I consider it likely that any tree which becomes part of a dryad-tree-relationship (whats that called anyway?) gets a level up to rival the livespan of those other tree species.

      Anyway, since dryads live so very long, their fertility would either have to be quite low or their method of population growth has to be quite different than the human one. Perhaps they have to grow as trees for a couple decades until they might, just might, become more sentient. Otherwise we would be swimming in dryads already. Generally things that grow very old have to propagate very slowly or get eaten very often (think bunnies). Since dryads only die if their tree gets killed and they are even able to run away from fire, dryad trees are much less likely to get killed by nature or end up as firewood *shudder*.

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      1. Martin in the chapters released on the patreon it doesn’t sound like there is a dryad tree relationship it’s more like the dryad is the tree or an extension of the tree. Maybe it’s the amount of manna in the environment which limits what trees can become dryads. At least we know clearly from the second book that satyrs can reproduce.

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      2. DaShoota, check the section of BLACK COVEN where Daniel, Cerise and Corinna’s Dryad SpecOps gang go hunting Undead beneath Kozalin.

        If I remember correctly, they loose a few dryads, whose spirits/souls “go back to their tree” for a while until they are strong enough to manifest a humanoid avatar again.

        “Strong enough” is probably part mana recovery and another part psychological recovery–recovering from being “killed”

        Since Daniel has provided a power stone (or stones) to the Groves, mana recovery will be accelerated.

        Psychological recovery is of course up to the author.

        Baseline for me, however, is that the tree and the dryad are two different physical beings that share a unique relationship such that neither can exist without the other also existing.

        The dryad can “return to her tree” which is some sort of merge or occupation.

        The tree can also “return to the dryad” in certain special, magically charged circumstances, like when the Groves travel to Black Island. That’s an ability I’ve seen no other place than the Daniel Black series, but I really enjoy the concept, consequences and options.

        There’s an obvious “chicken and egg” issue here.

        Does the “baby” tree manifest an humanoid avatar after birth and growth?

        Does the “baby” avatar manifest a tree after germination and growth?

        Maybe the baby avatar is born inside the tree when the tree is born, and steps out when mature?

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      3. Colin that’s one of the things I like about the DB series as well I’ve never seen that in any other books. But you’re right there’s still a lot of questions we need answers to about the reproduction of these various species. (I actually hope the author does not decide to make it a tiny footnote.)

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      4. Yes, I hope the author reveals some of the fun backstory information when appropriate in future books.

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      5. “since dryads live so very long, their fertility would either have to be quite low”

        The validity of this point depends on all offspring of dryads also being dryads.

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      6. After rereading all three books I’m starting to think that many of the creatures have a symbiotic reproductive system. The satyrs appeared to be able to reproduce males that are all satyrs and we’re not told openly but we’re given the impression that the females are whatever the mother is. The cat girls because of the nature of the enchantment that created them and the way it seems to work on males would probably either make it impossible for them to conceive anything except cat girls or all of the girls will be cat girls and the boys will be whatever the father is. I still think the dryad reproductive capability relies on the level of manna in a similar way that the elves do maybe they can produce normal trees but without a higher concentration of manna they can’t produce more dryads

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      7. DaShoota, in EXTERMINATION there is a brief discussion between Daniel and Sefwen about his Flesh magic maybe providing a solution to the Dark Elf reproduction problem. I suppose that’s an extension of more mana providing Dark Elves with more children, but Daniel seems to plan on making permanent genetic changes. That should enable the Dark Elves to conceive more children whether they have mana or not.

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      8. Dryads could be a case of reproduction and evolution by direct selection, like some hive insects do.

        A dryad or Grove with plentiful mana and unclaimed available rich soil could choose the “best” available seeds or saplings and somehow enable them to manifest new dryads. Maybe the entire Grove has a special ceremony to implore their Goddess to grant them new souls to nurture?

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      9. “At least we know clearly from the second book that satyrs can reproduce”

        Yes. And they have wives. Strictly speaking we have no evidence that they reproduced with their wives, but I think that would be the standard assumption. So what are their wives given that satyrs are all male? Nymphs, dryads? In that case the species of their direct offspring may be determined by the father.

        And Daniel planted them in a high mana environment and Hecate told him to enjoy the fruits of their cooperation. I suspect she meant that quite more literally than we thought.

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      10. Hmm…the satyrs’ wives will be an interesting challenge if they are nymphs.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nymph

        Nymphs are bound to specific geology that cannot be moved like a dryad’s tree.

        Of course, that does not appear to be the case where the nymph is part of a god’s or goddess’ retinue.

        Come to think of it, the nymphs’ springs and streams are frozen now, unless they are hot springs.

        It would make sense that the nymphs might need to move on, although I’d expect them to hibernate instead.

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      11. Yay, imagine you are a nice girl from a rural village, lucky enough to catch the eyes of a great guy that you want to marry and after you finally have him and get with a child, it turns out he was the grand-son of a cat-girl (well, cat-grandma I guess) and your daughter now looks like a cat instead of a human! Damn! There just had to be a catch. You were wondering why that perfect guy wasn’t already taken. 😉

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      12. “your daughter now looks like a cat instead of a human”

        WIth the strength to ‘arm wrestle a troll’ and enhanced senses. I can see that there would be cosmetic issues, but from a purely pragmatic point, it is an advantage. Such a mate may be sought after.

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      13. “WIth the strength to ‘arm wrestle a troll’ and enhanced senses. I can see that there would be cosmetic issues, but from a purely pragmatic point, it is an advantage. Such a mate may be sought after.”

        Seems to me like a mountain man marriage made in Heaven…um, Olympus…okay, Aaru — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaru

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      14. We are talking about the medieval age with magic thrown in. You get human villages that hate anything that isn’t perfectly human. Even then, if you happen to be female you’ll end up burned as a witch if you don’t watch yourself. No need to actually be able to do magic, just needs another female that thinks you looked at the guy she wants too long and has more status than you.

        So, if you give birth to a cat-girl baby it’s likely to get not only your baby killed but you as well. And that is before someone realizes that cat-girls are somehow related to a heathen goddess from far off lands. Or does the norse pantheon contain some reference to cat-people somewhere as well? Cats were pretty common and, given their diet, very useful to have around as a farmer.

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      15. Martin, Varmland might not quite be “Medieval” as we think of that. Remember that the year in Varmland is approximately the same as in the universe Daniel comes from. It has been some 2400 years since Socrates formalized magic. What that means for the sort of feudalism that seems to be practiced in Kozalin I don’t know, but there seems to be some separation between Church and State, probably because, very pragmatically, the Conclave can actually perform miracles on Earth, but so do the Gods on a good day. The merchants and magic users seem to have some sort of early Mercantilist economy, and the Prince presides over several different kinds of councils of advisors–military, magical and regional. I’m betting that relations between Throne and Conclave are usually tense at best, and must have been even more interesting in the age of the Bloody Archmage.

        It would not surprise me if the “science” of Alchemy is quite advanced, and quite magical, and quite weird compared with modern Chemistry. Daniel is in the process of dragging agriculture, kicking and screaming (for ENTIRELY erotic reasons) into ultra modern times. What he does for aviation will be fascinating, but not even novel in a world where pterodactyls and griffons carry riders through the skies. Magic, of course, emulates modern technology in many ways, and will do so even more as Daniel creates even more of his inventions.

        Consequently, I’m not sure we can assume that Varmlanders automatically burn witches. We know the Church of Asgard does, though it might enslave them for a while before burning them. Isolated villages might go crazy on Thursdays, but on Monday the local hearth witch who lives “out of town” can trade painkiller cordials for ten pounds of rye flour.

        And, of course, since Daniel is the current source of all Catgirls we know about (Tina), the odds of a birth happening anywhere off Black Island are rather low.

        Of course, you never know what Bast may do once She achieves some level of Her former power.

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      16. “We are talking about the medieval age with magic thrown in”

        That is by no means certain. There is no Christianity. So there is no religious reason to hate magic. The gods and their priests do magic. It cannot be intrinsically evil. Germanic paganism involved the spirits of the ancestors protecting you. And the magical creatures in the environment were sacrificed for.

        Varmland is medieval in an economic sense. But they are not classic European peasants. You cannot expect religious tolerance, but magic is another matter.

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      17. Oops.

        There absolutely is a religious reason to hate witches.

        Asgard hates witches and wants them all dead because they are Hecate’s anchors.

        The Asgard Church is Odin’s tool in Varmland to execute that policy and those witches.

        Holger Drakebane made that all VERY clear to Daniel in FIMBULWINTER.

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      18. “Nymphs are bound to specific geology that cannot be moved like a dryad’s tree.”

        Daniel’s nymphs seem to be bound to the groves. It is possible that only those few nymphs who happen to be associated with a grove that can relocate are mobile.

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      19. Yes, something like that seems to be happening. I’d be tempted to suggest that the satyrs and their nymph wives are naturally more mobile than solitary nymphs associated with specific springs or streams.

        Various Greek and Roman gods and goddesses had nymphs in their entourages, so the technical possibility of mobility seems to be met.

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      20. “There absolutely is a religious reason to hate witches.”

        Well, witches, not generic users of magic. Adherent of an Olympian god is more or less the definition of “witch”. Anybody else is a honorable priest or wizard. Feared maybe for their power, but having one of them is good.

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      21. Yes, “magic” is very much accepted in Varmland, which actually makes a bit more space for witches and other non-Asgardians to eke out a living wherever people are more concerned about purchasing a potion that actually works from an Olympian-worshiping witch, instead of a blessing from an Asgardian-worshiping priest who hasn’t yet figured out how to deliver visible results.

        Which only exacerbates the conflict between witches and the Asgard Church. Religions frequently seem to be intolerant of competition, even without the obvious anchor-killing strategies of the Asgardians.

        Plus, the Asgard Church has only rarely been forced to live in the shadow of truly powerful mages like the Bloody Archmage or Kozalin’s Conclave. The survivors of Mara’s assault may be a bit disorganized and shell-shocked for now, but it won’t take them long to realize that Daniel has introduced an entirely new level of competition into an ages old relationship of ongoing stress between priests and mages.

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    4. Oliver, a very dusty old memory just popped up in the cobwebbed back corner of my brain.

      I think I remember that wolves can suppress conception so that only the alpha female of a pack breeds.

      Daniel may need to help the wolfen ladies to conceive, after he realizes this might be happening.

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  14. I remember that some people want Daniel to have a flying castle.
    I kind of get the appeal of a mighty base in the sky. And it seems three people came up with a helicarrier idea independently.

    Yet I must say the idea of converting Black Island is foolish. This is not about the feasability of converting it.
    It is about the lack of economic sense. Black Island represents about three days of construction time. It is huge, but not a huge investment. There is nothing to salvage there. It contains the groves, agricultural areas and Avilla’s kitchen, but itself is just stone.
    Instead of converting it, which would take a lot of work, give an inferior result and leave no room for error, Daniel would be better of starting from scratch. And that would give him a second base. That also applies if you just want to move. Just build a new fortress. It is easier.

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    1. I agree, Daniel created the Black Island Fortress out of thin air and on a solid rock foundation. All that he needed was mana converted from matter. That is something that he finds whereever he goes, so if he wants to have another fortress somewhere, just conjure up a small stone which has all the instructions already in it to create a virtual copy of the first fortress.

      I am much more enamored with the classic fantasy flying ships, kind of like classic maritime ships, just with the added ability to float a certain distance above the surface of land, water, whatever might be down there. I was a bit disappointed by his first results on creating flying vessels. While it might have sounded clever to use bubble shields with vacuum in it to lighten a body able to carry things, it kind of sounds ugly and a bit unsuitable for a fantasy world. Luckily he later on learned to copy more than one way to fly, either from demons or dragons. With that, he should be able to create more interesting ships.

      And I really don’t want to see floating carrier-thingies like they had in some marvel universe. Given that he has to content with strong storms the way to go is small to medium size, fast traveling and high maneuverability. You can’t shoot storms and hurricans out of the sky, you can only run away. And the weather will only get worse.

      Next thing you guys will come up with is a walking castle. 😀

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      1. “Given that he has to content with strong storms the way to go is small to medium size, fast traveling and high maneuverability. You can’t shoot storms and hurricans out of the sky, you can only run away”

        You are not going to outmaneuver a storm either, as there is no need to. You can outrun it. But small does not equate fast. That is an illusion we get as we equate nimble and maneuverable with fast.

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      2. Oliver, not saying it cannot happen, but here is the speed comparison for storms and airships.

        http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/fastest-speed-for-an-airship/

        “the highest speed in the database is for unnamed Tropical Storm #6 in 1961. As it got caught up by a midlatitude trough over the midatlantic states, it went speeding off northeastward over Maine and New Brunswick at a maximum speed of 112.25 km/hr (60.57 kt or 69.75 mph). The fastest hurricane in the record was Emily in 1987, whose maximum speed reached 110.48 km/hr (59.61 kt or 68.65 mph) as it raced over the North Atlantic, before it turned extratropical.”

        http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/G16.html

        Close. Too close for comfort, as Daniel and Clan Nethwillin have already discovered.

        So, the challenge is obviously to significantly increase the speed of INTREPID and her future sister airships.

        Nethwillin seems likely to be able to operate INTREPID at a slightly higher speed than Daniel could, after they make their magical modifications to the hull.

        A new ship with mass/weight/gravity banishment enchantment, bags of holding cargo spaces, all-titanium construction and a titanium aeroshell wrapped around the force bubble volume should be much better able to accept more thrust for significantly higher speed.

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      3. From Daniels point of view the simple solution may be to just build it big enough and heavily armored enough with the new flight enchantment to plow through a hurricane basically a flying battleship. It would take work and experimentation maybe with help from the elves but it’s doable.

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      4. I’m actually wondering whether or not he’ll want to develop something like that as a mobile command post for his generals in the field. He said a power stone to take with them on campaigns so maybe put it under the command of whoever’s in charge of the expedition.

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      5. Yes. If you must have a single point of failure like a power block, put it in a monster beast of an armored fighting vehicle.

        Or…maybe some place really sneaky, like the bottom of one of the many portable latrines?

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      6. “So, the challenge is obviously to significantly increase the speed of INTREPID and her future sister airships”

        The Intrepid is a flying box without much streamlining. And it has a major weakness by having its force bubble weakly attached. As soon as you enclose it, the force field becomes in terms of mechanic the skin. That can withstand a full vacuum. Typical dynamic pressures are well below that. Thrust is not not the limit typically.
        .
        I see no reason why such an airship should be that much slower than an aerodynamic craft

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      7. In one of the rewritten chapters he basically build a jet using the force field as the outer skin to provide aerodynamics.

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      8. Castle on the back of a giant Godzilla type dragon.🏃‍♂️🏃‍♀️👨‍👩‍👧‍👧 RUN AWAY AAAA GODZILLA!

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    2. You can bet that the next time Daniel, or Clan Nethwillin, “anchors” an airship they will quickly throw up something similar to a “small” Black Island. “Quickly” as in putting a seed ingot on the ground and stepping back while it automatically grows a simple version of the fortress.

      The basement floor will be at least as heavily armored as the outer walls….

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      1. I’d say the first defense is to change the aluminum to steel and making sure everyone knows that. Never, ever build something out of aluminum again. Since Daniel now has an enchantment to banish weight without loosing material strenght or volume the material used matters not.

        Otherwise, as said before, I really like the idea of seed stones with preprogrammed results. 🙂

        Well, although a small fortress might not always be a good idea. It makes you stick out in the landscape and anyone can find you pretty easily after you land. Better to hide and avoid fighting completely than to fight. Of course, you should still put up defense walls in case you can’t avoid it.

        Wasn’t there some story somewhere about moving underground? As you can banish and summon stuff, it shouldn’t be that much more complicated to move stuff in front of you behind you as you go.

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      2. Hi, Martin. Yes, Daniel’s first “shelter” was an underground, made for his purposes, cave. If he does that for his airship “anchor defense” it will have to be armored and bespelled on all six sides.

        Sadly for Daniel, and Clan Nethwillin, it won’t be long before the dwarves figure out who punished them with mythril hyperinflation. That’s not the sort of event that can be kept secret for long. After that leaks, it won’t matter whether Daniel builds his airships out of aluminum, titanium, platinum or neutronium.

        The dwarves will want him and Nethwillin dead.

        Okay, they ALREADY want Daniel dead.

        That lava flow OP cave kill likely left a whole bunch of exit wounds that will be remembered for a very long time.

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      3. “Okay, they ALREADY want Daniel dead.”

        How do you know that? The operation against the dwarves left no survivors, did it?
        Best case is that the dwarves find a destroyed outpost after an unclear message to open the gates due to the alarms having been triggered.

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      4. Every clannish people has enemies and rivals I would be looking to take advantage of that. There’s always a way to make money off of inflation or deflation. He should find a rival clan of dwarves to deal with. Maybe the elves already did they sed something about starting the selling by using proxy’s didn’t they. If he makes the other clan wealthy he may have some allies he doesn’t know anything about yet wonder if the elves will break it to him in a meeting?

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      5. Okay, there’s a possibility the dwarves know right away that Daniel is to blame for the outpost being destroyed, but there is also a significant possibility they do not and it will be difficult for them to learn.

        Maybe the dwarves did not communicate at all with any other dwarves when their raid seemed to be a huge success.

        Maybe they did not communicate at all when it blew up in their faces.

        Maybe the dwarves at the other end of the portal/gate don’t know the outpost was trying to open it before they were destroyed.

        Maybe some of that molten lava squirted through the portal/gate and also ruined some other dwarves’ day.

        It’s quite possible the dwarves in that outpost were totally wiped out with no hint of who did it…except all that lava.

        Oh, and that gaping hole ripped straight down into the hill, which may have survived in relatively identifiable condition.

        Oh, and that shaped, pure mythril (aluminum) the dwarves stole from INTREPID. Where will THAT be? In the treasury? And where will any investigators from the dwarves’ clan go first? The treasury? That mythril (aluminum) will be another curious clue.

        Hmm…where is there a super powerful Earth mage “near” that outpost?

        Okay, the dwarves probably won’t have THAT information right away, but they might figure it out. They certainly have incentive.

        The frost giants certainly know an airship rescued Nethwillin and bombed the crap out of the giants, just north of the outpost.

        The frost spirits certainly know an airship rescued Nethwillin and vaporized many of the spirits, just north of the outpost.

        Any of Loki’s or Gaia’s “folk” who live in the area might have seen INTREPID landing at the end of the day and then leaving the next day, maybe even noticed the fight.

        How many airships are there in operation “near” the dwarves’ outpost?

        One

        Who owns that airship?

        Loki probably knows or can figure out most of what happened. Will He share?

        Hecate almost certainly knows, or can figure it out. She probably won’t share.

        Gaia might figure it out by inspection, if she visits both the remains of the outpost and Kozalin/Black Island.

        Nethwillin probably is capable of keeping the secret, but they travel to dangerous places.

        Daniel’s coven will know, but they can probably keep a secret.

        Still, that’s a very large circle of potential secret keepers.

        There will be a leak, some day.

        There is also a chance the outpost dwarves managed to communicate something before they fried.

        There is an even bigger chance that some of INTREPID’S aluminum that the dwarves stole will somehow survive and be discovered.

        There will eventually be Nethwillin carefully, stealthily hyperinflating the mythril market to ruin the dwarves.

        Tick tock.

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      6. The dwarves shouldn’t be of any immediate threat. After all, when their economy collapses they will have other problems. Imagine Saudi-Arabia being angry at Iran. Then suddenly the oil price falls so far that it is essentially worthless. Their whole economy is based on oil, they will be pretty desperate to survive as a nation. Revenge is a luxury you can not afford when your survival is at stake.

        And besides that, I’m sure those dwarven clans all have enmity aplenty, be it with other clans of dwarves or non-dwarf entities, groups or nations. They’ll smell blood and take the opportunity. So, i’d be surprised if that clan survives at all. Well… maybe not that surprised, it would make a good bad guy later on.

        Oh, and the point about knowing who did it… well, in a world of magic, no doubt there are plenty of ways to learn what happened, even if you don’t have any sources that are willing to tell you. BTW: Loki manipulated them to land there and send those dwarves after him. Why wouldn’t he tell others of that clan that happened to not live at that outpost? Or for that matter, would the god Loki really go to a minor leader of some random small outpost instead of just the clan head to get them to attack someone?

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      7. Martin, that all makes sense, but the dwarves are not the only threat to INTREPID when away from Black Island.

        Plus, a properly designed “portable castle” might reasonably include a hangar sized for the airship.

        It is always better for an airship to be inside a sturdy, secure hangar when storm winds are blowing.

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      8. “Or for that matter, would the god Loki really go to a minor leader of some random small outpost instead of just the clan head to get them to attack someone?”

        A clan head is rich or does not benefit from an attack. Thus much less likely to order an attack out of greed. He may consider whether you really want to piss off a new force with such capabilities.

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      9. Consider, Loki just drop-tested Daniel against the dwarves, and the dwarves against Daniel.

        Loki learned a LOT from that encounter.

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      10. “I’d say the first defense is t”o change the aluminum to steel and making sure everyone knows that”

        Well, in hindsight, what else would you build your ships out of? Maybe wood? Possibly, but why do you need to mention that? Oddly somebody is selling mithril …

        It seems to me that you are too late.You might claim that somebody is selling at rock bottom prices and that allowed you to uild the ship. And you can try to hide the material. But demonstratively announcing your material won’t work.

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      11. I agree that it’s too late for Daniel to discourage various raiders from attacking INTREPID, especially now that Clan Nethwillin makes up most of the officers and crew on each airship he builds.

        People might not recognize Daniel, but they will recognize those clever, powerful, RICH Dark Elves who must have something valuable on that incredibly I WANT IT flying machine.

        Some sort of ground defenses will be highly desirable for unplanned and especially planned landings.

        Significantly increasing the offensive capabilities of the airships would also be highly desirable.

        It’s never a bad thing to make the raiders think twice about dying very, very messily.

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      12. Why all this focus about protecting the Intrepid? It is a ship transporting goods and people. It has some guards and is probably fairly tough, but mostly it avoids threats. I personally think Daniel should build a few factory stones and get a small fleet of these ships. But the key point is that — at the end of the day – it is just a supply caravan that goes through the air. You will lose some. It is the nature of war. Better to keep the crew size small, the ship agile and the weapons deadly, but limited. That way it becomes an unattractively dangerous target vis-a-vis any gain the enemy could make.

        For the same reason, i would avoid building massive “bag of holding” type capacity into the ship, at least for routine operation. You do not want to make it “too” valuable and thus an attractive target. In fact, i would, if Daniel, instead build into the ship a massive energy reserve that automatically charges itself when within range of a power stone. Do not carry a power stone. That power stone is probably more valuable than a dozen airships.

        If Daniel spends a month making it into this massive mobile fortress of doom, it just makes it a target. He also has to divert a bunch of his elite troops to defend it. It the end, the cost of operation so badly out-ways the any conceivable benefit that it becomes a lost cause. And its threat value will be so high that enemy forces will attack it wherever it goes. If Daniel went this route, all he would get is a big impressive mobile fortress that spends all its time hovering over his castle.

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      13. I agree the concept of a heavily armored battleship works for warships but not for a commerce ship. That’s why I suggested getting some made out of wood by the local ship rights.

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      14. As long as they run off some sort of mana storage battery, I think wooden airships floating around with a variety of methods of propulsion and maybe several different means of creating lift are a fun addition to an already enjoyable story. Daniel might not have to do anything for us to see this happen, either.

        Maybe wooden airships are Gaia’s response to INTREPID bombing the crap out of Her armies?

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      15. Other nations might also get in on the flying ship thing to after all with one running around there’s going to be a lot of national leaders decide (hey I want one.) I can also see some pushback coming from many of the nations whose business is maritime trade. Or the smart ones might decide to get in on the ground floor first.

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      16. The following quote from you, dspring, which I totally agree with, is what enables Daniel and Nethwillin to operate a small fleet of airships in the very useful and effective way I would enjoy reading.

        “For the same reason, i would avoid building massive “bag of holding” type capacity into the ship, at least for routine operation. You do not want to make it “too” valuable and thus an attractive target. In fact, i would, if Daniel, instead build into the ship a massive energy reserve that automatically charges itself when within range of a power stone. Do not carry a power stone. That power stone is probably more valuable than a dozen airships.”

        That method of operation would justify a whole range of fun airships, from small, fast couriers to big, fat merchants and maybe some nasty, powerful combat airships.

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      17. “it is just a supply caravan that goes through the air. You will lose some.”

        That is certainly a sensible way of viewing it. But then, why bother at all?
        The mundane ways of building ships, oceanic and riverine, do work. Give out some battery or single use improvements and let them do trade. Daniel’s airships are limited to military and high priority transports.

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      18. The mundane ways of building ships, oceanic and riverine, do work. Give out some battery or single use improvements and let them do trade.

        Force-push water-jets for the ships would be a useful tool for oceanic trade. No more need to rely on wind or air elementals. Mana batteries could serve just as fuel tanks do in our reality.

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      19. If you have power systems you can also cut down dramatically on the crew you need for ships. This reduces human storage space and either gives you more weight/space for sustainment or reduces the need for it. So your ships can go further and faster while risking fewer people. Big advantage there.

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      20. In societies or cultures of that level most people working on it would be for protection against pirates or raiders of some type. It was a balance of people to do work vs people to fight if needed. Most sailing ships in our history could be run with between 5 and 10 people easily. There is a reason most of them through history had cruise of between 40 and 50.

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      21. DaShoota, I’d have to research it to be certain, but I suspect you are correct in more than just the historic size of crews. There were times during the Roman Empire when pirates caused so many issues that Rome sent out a consul with an army to put down the pirates. The Serbian coast was razed by Pompeii in Caesar’s time for this reason, if I remember right. And what was the “issue” with pirates? Not just that they took a few ships and sold the crews into slavery. They forced EVERYBODY to add fighting crew, which meant every ship cost more to operate and the smallest ships maybe couldn’t operate at all.

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      22. I’d think a magic battery powered version of a blunderbus could solve most of the unwanted border problems. Basically just a big shotgun on a swivel mount. Most of the time just let it sit there and charge until needed. But after awhile you’ll have your guys going a Viking with it. Problems, problems, problems and more problems fixed 2 made 4.

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      23. Martin, while this is true, there are some nasty hooks in the way people try to take advantage of it.

        For example, ships need people for maintenance and especially for emergency repairs or fighting.

        Be careful not to sail with too few crew or the ship might not return….

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      24. Yes, jabrwok, and there’s no particular reason Daniel must be the one that does it.

        I suspect any of several Conclave adepts are able to look at one of Daniel’s flamethrowers, then create something similar rather quickly. The path from that to a mana battery and force-push or water jet seems relatively logical.

        Mana batteries can be charged by anybody. For that matter, Kozalin already has all sorts of mana batteries that are charged by regular convocations of junior sorcerers/sorceresses. The Asgardian Church has similar power supplies, pumped up by prayers.

        Hmm…that might not be so easy. What does Odin think when the “prayer power” that ought to be pumped into HIM winds up filling the soul power battery of a greedy High Priest?

        LIGHTNING STRIKE!

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      25. Why bother at all?

        Because it’s fun!

        Not just fun for us readers, but also fun for Nethwillin.

        Flying Dark Elf traders to the worlds?

        WANT!

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      26. Daniel is not going to waste his time spending months building wooden ships, when he can make a metal one in an afternoon.

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      27. Kervyn, it might be possible for Daniel to convince a dryad to shape herself into an airship.

        We know they can become boats. Sure, it’s a goofy, unlikely string of silly events, but what if Alanna declares she wants to fly like Cerise and Daniel hears her? That brain of his would automatically jump from dryad boat to dryad airship–she needs to learn his force spells for the bubbles and thrust. Sure, it would take a LOOOOOOONG time for a dryad to fully internalize the new spells, the new skills and the new sensations, but it would be GLORIOUS!

        Hmm…then she’d have to learn navigation from Nethwilllin, and probably would need a mana battery enchantment or object from Daniel or Cerise or somebody. The Grove could help her fill the battery, for suitable “considerations”.

        Okay, there’s at least a whole new chapter in this, maybe a whole book.

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      28. Dryads derive their power from contact with the Earth. Shaping themselves into airships would be contrary to their natures, and as spirits of Earth, that’s likely near-impossible for them. The one who shaped herself into a boat was very unhappy about the experience, and she was still *close* to the Earth, even if not in direct contact.

        If you want a sapient airship, bind an air elemental. The dark elves have plenty of experience with that sort of thing, though it doesn’t appear to be necessary, so there’s no telling whether doing so would confer a significant advantage over the current control scheme.

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      29. Jabrwok, I agree with the probable reluctance of most dryads to do anything that forces them to leave behind contact with the Earth. It would take a particularly adventurous dryad to even consider flying, much less becoming an airship. The necessary magic is, however, all that really matters after psychological concerns are obviated.

        Powerful mana batteries plus Daniel sharing the Force bubble and Force thrust enchantments enable dryad airships. The dryad does not even need to learn the enchantments if Daniel gives her an enchanted item. The dryad would only need as much structure as she felt necessary to anchor herself to the Force bubble and thruster. She could use some sort of enchanted harness for that. Then it’s all training, learning to navigate, accumulating experience, developing skills and wondering whose crazy idea was this?

        Notice that this experiment does not explicitly require a dryad, All it really needs is a flight harness rigged to enable the user to dangle under the center of a Force bubble and outside of the bubble.

        Imagine a one-person or two-person louge sled with two or three short, stubby masts and all the appropriate enchantments plus some offensive and defensive magic items. Yeah, it’s rather more than a harness, but the sort of attempt to emulate Daniel’s INTREPID that I would expect from some inventive Adept…YEARS after INTREPID becomes obsolete.

        Or maybe sooner.

        Daniel keeps discovering that the Conclave can be much more competent than he previously thought.

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      30. You underestimate the speed of north men at building long ships. You are thinking in terms of Spanish Galyans or north American frigates. A lighter thinner hulled ship should take them about a week maybe 2 to complete. Then instead of giving it a mast just make anchor points for whatever enchanted device get put on it.

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      31. “Okay, there’s at least a whole new chapter in this, maybe a whole book.”
        No there isn’t. A few fire arrows, or giant hitting it with a club and it splinter and kindling.
        Look at Daniel’s actions so far, he is not going to do something that ridiculous. When the dryads get hit,nit hurts, when a metal ship gets hit it doesn’t hurt.
        This isn’t some kiddy book. Daniel is fighting for his life, and those of his family. He waste time making a wooden boat, or a flying dryad boat, and risk people he swore to protect.

        If Daniel does that(or any of the other ridiculous nonsensical things that leave him open to attack) I will see this book as a kiddie shonen comedy anime.

        Liked by 1 person

      32. ¨I suspect any of several Conclave adepts are able to look at one of Daniel’s flamethrowers, then create something similar rather quickly.”

        They won’t do it. Enchanting is serious work to them. If you put that much effort into a weapon, it will be the best you can build, not a flamer. They’d build their version of Grinder. Look for example at Leo’s sword and armor. What the Conclave can build is just as good as what Daniel can build (minus radiation and earth core explosions). They just cannot mass produce it or use it often.

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      33. The Conclave has something else we don’t see much, but do notice a few hints of–a training program with trainees.

        There are “junior” magic users, who seem to be teenagers and maybe a little older, beginners learning the basics of sorcery like the young library helper Tova usurps to steal time with Daniel.

        There are also apprentices who might be the next level of trained, but not yet ready to let loose upon the world, like Mara in her spy persona.

        Then, there are “journeyman/journeywoman” Adepts who are recently acknowledged as competent but still working hard to expand and improve their skills, maybe like Leo and some of the other golem drivers.

        Maybe none of the Adepts would mess around with one of Daniel’s flamethrowers, but a kid might find it interesting, particularly since there will be so many of them and other enchanted items in circulation, occasionally available for brief study..

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      34. Colin there’s also going to be those especially gifted kids that are going to hear about some of the things Daniel is doing and try to figure out how to replicate it. After all knowing something can be done is halfway to figuring out how to do it yourself. Maybe not in the same way but in such a case the end result is what would matter.

        (Hey this guy figured out how to make an external power source I wonder how he did it? Well I know it can be done because somebody has already done it but how? What if I enchanted my staff so that when I stick the end of it into a fire it didn’t burn up but converted the heat that would burn it up into manna and stored it in its battery? Or what if I enchanted a big ball of glass and dropped it into a waterfall just before it went over and had it anchor itself and convert the energy of the rushing water going over it into manna and stored in a battery that I could tap into from a distance? Maybe I could enchant the same types of big balls of glass to suck in manna and store it in a battery I can tap into from a distance with an amulet and just hide several of them out in the woods or in the city maybe drop it down a sewer?)

        There is a lot of things a clever and intelligent smart ass kid would wind up doing given just a sliver of a chance to do it.

        Maybe one of them will start making magic marbles and hiding them everywhere? 🤓

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      35. And that is one part of the magical industrial revolution Daniel has contributed to.

        Of course, the whole idea of the Conclave is conducive to encouraging “kids” to create magic stuff to use for their own work, or sell to finance their own work, or use and sell to extend the Conclave’s goals. They just have a very slow, challenging education before creating the fun stuff can happen at all, and THAT process will be slow and challenging also.

        What’s going to drive them all crazy will be Daniel’s FAST magical mass production, as we all know.

        Once they know that fast mass production is possible, we should expect to eventually see small numbers of a variety of very simple magical items appear in Kozalin’s markets. It will be very difficult for them to do anything complex, and there will be a huge, scary obstacle to even trying.

        The Conclave will shut that trade down FAST, except for the very few items whose makers can demonstrate they are NOT sucking up ambient magic all over the city, and those makers will probably be recruited as apprentices ASAP by the more clever Adepts..

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      36. Convert Current Sea craft, easier than building from scratch, you just need to anchor the lift sails to the ships spine (probably replacing the current masts) and add buoyancy compensation (weight Banishment blocks) and steerage compensation (force jets on the Tiller and nose) and some type of landing system (Skimmer Field or wooden Rails). Be a bitch to fly though, too much excess Sail area from the ships sides and no water resistance would make it squirrelly to steer and wind drift during landing maneuvers would be dangerous to everyone on the ground without some type of drag system.

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      37. “Maybe none of the Adepts would mess around with one of Daniel’s flamethrowers”

        I would be surprised, if the Conclave had no official study group on Daniel and a few wizards had founded inofficial groups. The flamers themselves are trivial. Any enchanter knowing fire magic could build them.
        It will get interesting, if they get two flamers and notice that they are identical.

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      38. It’s almost certain to happen that Conclave and other magic researchers will obtain flamethrowers and other enchanted items from dead or injured soldiers.

        What will be really interesting is when the researchers are able to compare multiple instances of power-linked flamethrowers with one or more self-powered flamethrowers.

        Yes, they will notice that each type of flamethrower is roughly identical to others of the same type. This might be more true of the power-linked flamethrowers since their “factory” is much more stable.

        It won’t take the researchers long to realize the self-powered flamethrowers are the really fine discovery.

        Somebody is guaranteed to attempt to “connect” to the power source(s) in the self-powered flamethrower(s).

        FOOF-KABOOM?

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      39. I’m pretty sure Daniel gathered up all his self-powered flamers and destroyed them. He’s been getting much more careful about sharing anything that includes a MtM enchantment in it.

        At this point he could, give time (unlikely), lay a line of enchanted heating cable in the harbor and up the river to the sea, and not activate the heat enchantment until he gets back to the Citadel. On his way back he could banish all his heat stones. The heating cable would be powered by a power stone in the Citadel.

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      40. I’m pretty sure Daniel tried to collect all his old, self-powered flamers after he figured out how to replace them with power-linked flamers. However, we don’t know if any of his soldiers died with an old flamer in their hands before that, and nobody was able to collect it until scavengers picked it up. For all we know, Loki may have one in His hands by the end of EXTERMINATION.

        As for the newer, power-linked flamers, there are something like two hundred of them, yes? Maybe more? I’m sure Daniel expects at least one of the militia or the soldiers to try selling a flamer. That’s the whole point of making them power-linked. There are so many more of them than the old flamers that losing a new one is virtually guaranteed.

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      41. Jabrwok, I’m not sure a single power stone has enough energy output to fire up a cable from Black Island to the North Sea.

        Remember, Daniel put a MtM enchantment approximately every forty feet, maybe a bit closer, for the better part of two working days of about 12 hours each. He dropped something like one a minute, so there are something like 1400 of them, EACH with an MtM enchantment driving a very HOT experience.

        It may take several big power blocks to energize that cable.

        Personally, I like the idea of taking several of the armed and armored skimmers to do this job. They could drop new hot rocks that are power linked AND have protections against the enchantment being dispelled.

        Then Daniel could do like you suggest, visit all his old, self-powered hot rocks and dispell the enchantments on them–which ought to remind him that they were much too vulnerable to that. I think his first solution was “quick and dirty” and he was hoping nobody would try to steal a hot rock or two for research.

        Good luck with that. I’m betting the Conclave will nudge a few rocks a little further apart and steal one or two for research.

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      42. “Good luck with that. I’m betting the Conclave will nudge a few rocks a little further apart and steal one or two for research.”

        That will teach us how fire magic works. Does he specify a temperature in his enchantment or an amount of heat? If the latter, the stones will self-destruct if you lift them out of the water. The heat it takes to make something this hot in water will make it melt outside water.

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      43. I suppose that depends on the rock, but Daniel has another problem that is more like high temperature chemistry.

        Fresh water at the temperature those rocks must have will be somewhat corrosive.

        Salt water, which will eventually replace the fresh water after that river freezes solid all the way up to its source, is even MORE corrosive.

        Those rocks will dissolve long before their enchantments would have run out of mana.

        Oliver, just before Daniel meets Narfing, grandson of Jormungandr, several of the last few hot rocks are placed carefully by Daniel using Force magic instead of letting them fall off the back of the sled. He seems to be able to “handle” them in open air for several minutes.

        I bet the author did not sit down and calculate how much heat is required to warm up the volumes of water Daniel is working with. I’m guessing anything more than a rough guess would require integral calculus since the water is constantly moving at the speed of the river current.

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      44. You are assuming that the rocks get hot instead of just summoning a field of heat around them selves in the water.

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      45. Good point, DaShoota, but hot/warm water is still corrosive and will slowly warm up the rocks while also slowly dissolving them. Probably not as quickly as really hot rocks would dissolve.

        Hmm…Daniel will have to “switch on” those hot rocks from a safe distance when they drop, or they will heat the water inside his and other human bodies.

        I wonder if his personal heat/fire shielding will protect him from that? Probably.

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      46. Maybe that’s how he set them in the water in the first place? They were not on until in the pressure of the water. He could have used his force magic to create a pressure switch other sorts.

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      47. Oops. No.

        DaShoota, if you look at the section of Chapter Four in BLACK COVEN where Daniel is creating the magic “factory” that manufactures his heating stones you will see that they are supposed to pop out of the factory at their working temperature or very close to it.

        If you look a few pages earlier to his experiments with different sized rocks at various temperatures, you will see he created some as hot as a bonfire. Maybe in his tests he put the rock on the ice and then hit the rock with the heat enchantment?

        Otherwise, he really must be giving his Fire shielding a field test…some of those rocks are way too hot to have anywhere near unprotected fingers.

        I bet if we did a little math to calculate how hot those rocks really have to be in order to keep river water warm enough to keep ice melted above them, we’d wind up with rocks so hot it would be very uncomfortable to get within ten or twenty feet of them in open air. The specific heat capacity of water is high, so it takes a lot of heat to warm up a volume of water.

        https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/specific-heat-capacity-d_391.html

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      48. You are right I forgot about that part. I also remembered in the third book when the death which was describing their wizard as being fireproof. When they went to rescue the Elven children.

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      49. “You are assuming that the rocks get hot instead of just summoning a field of heat around them selves in the water.”

        Yes, because they are described as getting hot immediately.

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      50. The rocks were all made exactly the same right? so the corrosion should apply at the same rate right? be funny as hell if they all catastrophically failed due to that corrosion at the same time. BOOM! BOOM! BOOM! in a line down the middle of the river all the way to the sea. Fast method to both break up the ice and inadvertently dredge the bottom…

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      51. No.

        – local flow rates and water depth are not uniform
        – the factory enchantment kept degrading, so you will see them gradually get worse in quality until the quality goes back to optimim

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      52. “Otherwise, he really must be giving his Fire shielding a field test…some of those rocks are way too hot to have anywhere near unprotected fingers.”

        He can use force magic to move them. There is no need to touch them.

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  15. I was wondering. Brand mentioned that Gaia had sent nine armies already. The description of the emptied pods sounded like the Halls of Slumber were not supposed to be reentered once warriors are awoken. So we are still looking at a large number of Andregi in the field. Gaia still controls the passages.

    She would fear contagion. So she cannot return them home. What does she do with them?

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      1. @Oliver Neukum i dont know the only ones who knows what happened are Hecate and Daniel and Hecate only has a vague ideal of what Daniel did and if a worker spread it to the crops will lose more than the halls of slumber and it might be so big of an empact that she might be come weeker and Loki no longer see her as an Ally casue she promised an army she can not give.

        and to 9 armys left they are only 20,000 each daniel kills that in after noon!

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    1. They are there to attack humans. She will keep them in the field to attack humans. She might be more cautious about getting them killed off, but fundamentally attacking humanity is why they exist. Gaia also lacks the food and supplies to support these armies for any extended time. Remember, her food reserves are stored with the troops — which means most of her food reserves are probably going to be contaminated.

      As Oliver states, contamination could be a big issue depending on how Gaia responds. If she treats it like a disease and quarantines, damage is minimal beyond the total loss of the remaining sleepers and supplies. If Gaia is overconfident and (because of her nature powers) is “positive” that no disease or poison exists, her natural reaction might make the problem of contamination much much worse.

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      1. There’s at least one more potentially ugly option, dspring.

        Use it or lose it.

        If Gaia reacts immediately upon discovering mass death throughout Her sleeping armies, She might totally lose it and try to activate every possible survivor at once to quickly march them all to the attack, leaving a hideous trail of death, contamination and confusion in their wake,

        I wonder if there would be enough survivors at the point where She notices the unexpected die off?

        If it’s only a handful, nobody cares.

        If one percent of eight million Andregi survive radiation poisoning…that could be eighty thousand sick Andregi marching away from the site of the catastrophe and maybe half of half of them hitting a target somewhere.

        They might all die in the first assault, but for the defenders, cleanup is going to suck rocks, massive, glow in the dark rocks.

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      2. It wouldn’t be that bad the radiation weapon DB used was designed to kill from anywhere to 3 weeks to about 3 years. Also organic matter doesn’t hold radiation that long. If the enemy used metal that would be a problem but they don’t. Chances are the people cleaning it up wouldn’t really have much of a problem until several decades down the line when about 10% starts to come down with cancer.

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      3. Interesting.

        Gaia might have something like a few hundred thousand surviving Andregi if the fatality rate was more like 95% than 99%

        Of course, Daniel was probably trying for overkill, so the fatality rate might have been more like 99.99%

        It’s not overkill when they really ARE trying to kill you.

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      4. The weapon moved at random. So his overkill is bound to be local and some spots will get a dose that does not kill immediately and we will have to wonder how good blood armor is against neutron radiation.

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    1. The author can be found on patreon, where he posts a chapter, or was it just part of a chapter, each month. Last post is from 4th of march, so the post for this month can be expected any day now. Well, at least for the subscribers that is. I’m waiting for the book, not paying 5$ each month just for a bit of a spoiler I’m done with after 5 minutes. Sounds kind of frustrating to me.

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